Ma mozes, ako imas dobru strategiju i predocis im sta oni dobijaju sa tim. Za zemlja poput mexica, brazila to znaci move poslove, bolji standard (kupovina americke robe sto znaci pare se vracaju nazad u USA) a mi imamo pristup jeftinijem i cesto boljem proizvodu (ne mislim na kinujeza u ledja wrote:Ne mozes ti imati 'free trade' sa zemljom koja kontrolise svoju ekonomiju (Kina) ili sa zemljom koja nema jaku regulativu o zastiti okolisa ili zastiti radnika (Meksiko).
Obama i SAD (2008-2016)
- pitt
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#1451 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
- pitt
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#1452 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
jeza u ledja wrote:Nego, sta mislite koga bi Obama trebao izabrati za VP?
Ja sam cuo nekih milion prijedloga, naravno najcesci je da izabere Hilku, ali velika vecina analiticara tvrdi da se to nece desiti. Jutros gledam neku anketu, 75% Hilkinih glasaca bi odgovarao 'shared ticket' (e sad ne znam je li misle ona kao VP ili sta), dok je na to potvrdno odgovorilo samo 45% Obaminih glasaca. Mnogi kazu ma ne bi ona to ni htjela, s konja na magarca, ali ja sam uvjeren da bi ona poletila na tu poziciju, da bi mu Bill poslije mogao za vratom sjediti.
Najbolja opcija bi bio neko ko nju podrzava. Jos kad bi taj neko bio iz velike swing state drzave to bi bilo extra. Ted Strickland, guverner Ohia ili Ed Rendell guverer Pennsylvanie bi bili najbolje rjesenje. Osiguras PA ili OH (mozda bolje Ohio jer je on prosli put bio 'crven') i pola posla za izbore je zavrseno.
nemoj rendella majke ti.......bljak. Koje je to govno od covjeka....
- jeza u ledja
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#1453 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Ako oni dobijaju sa cim? Oni hoce free trade jer to pomaze njihovoj ekonomiji, ciji ce rast, u fazi u kojoj su sad, pomoci i radnicima. Oni hoce free trade jer to pomaze njihovom narodu. U Americi vlada hoce free trade jer to pomaze korporacijama, koje su danas maltene potpuno 'detached' od americkih gradjana. Od free trade ima mnogo vise zemlja koja vise regulise svoju ekonomiju.pitt wrote:Ma mozes, ako imas dobru strategiju i predocis im sta oni dobijaju sa tim. Za zemlja poput mexica, brazila to znaci move poslove, bolji standard (kupovina americke robe sto znaci pare se vracaju nazad u USA) a mi imamo pristup jeftinijem i cesto boljem proizvodu (ne mislim na kinujeza u ledja wrote:Ne mozes ti imati 'free trade' sa zemljom koja kontrolise svoju ekonomiju (Kina) ili sa zemljom koja nema jaku regulativu o zastiti okolisa ili zastiti radnika (Meksiko).)
Sto se tice VP, sta fali Rendellu?
- pitt
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#1454 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
jasta je hard working,......i mater bi prodao za funkciju .....a kako favorizuje filadelfiju u odnosu na druge dijelove drzave necu ni da spominjem.
Free trade pomaze i vladama i kompanijama i consumers (narodu) na svakoj strani. Pogledaj samo koliko stvari su tebi u americi pristupnacne i jeftinije nego da nema free trade....od nekih namirnica (voca i povrca) pa do automobila i ostalih "luksuznih" stvari. Jel treba svi sevije od 100K da vozimo da bi unije bile sretne?
Free trade pomaze i vladama i kompanijama i consumers (narodu) na svakoj strani. Pogledaj samo koliko stvari su tebi u americi pristupnacne i jeftinije nego da nema free trade....od nekih namirnica (voca i povrca) pa do automobila i ostalih "luksuznih" stvari. Jel treba svi sevije od 100K da vozimo da bi unije bile sretne?
- jeza u ledja
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#1455 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Radije bi da puno ljudi ima dobre poslove i da kupuju skupe proizvode, napravljene ovdje, nego da malo ljudi ima dobre poslove i kupuju jeftine proizvode, napravljene u inostranstvu.pitt wrote:jasta je hard working,......i mater bi prodao za funkciju .....a kako favorizuje filadelfiju u odnosu na druge dijelove drzave necu ni da spominjem.
Free trade pomaze i vladama i kompanijama i consumers (narodu) na svakoj strani. Pogledaj samo koliko stvari su tebi u americi pristupnacne i jeftinije nego da nema free trade....od nekih namirnica (voca i povrca) pa do automobila i ostalih "luksuznih" stvari. Jel treba svi sevije od 100K da vozimo da bi unije bile sretne?
Znaci Rendell ne valja kazes. Hmm, osjetim odredjenu dozu animoziteta na relaciji Pitt - Philly.
To nesto ko Zenica - Sarajevo.
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#1456 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Joj hoce li vec jednom izabrati ikoga??? Vec pola godine po TV-u se vuku Clitton
i Obama. Kad su poceli koliko se zavikalo mislio sam mjesec dana i gotovo a ono gore od dinastije. Sad ce trebati jos pola godine slusati i onu americku verziju Kuzmanovica kad ovo dvoje ohanu...
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#1457 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Vidi ovo.....na jednom parkingu ispred sgrade jednih od unija pise "all foreign made cars will be towed at owners expense". Znaci ja ako dodjem u hondi ili toyoti odvuci ce mi auto.......a de ti meni reci zasto su to kompanije poput toyota koje imaju postrojenja po americi i koja zaposljavaju amerikance u njima zasluzili? I nisu svi producti jeftini i ne kvalitetni....podji od auta, tehnike ....i do nekih namirnica. Davno je bila studija o asparagusu iz wasingtomn state gdje se proizvodio godinama....dok nisu odlucili da ga je jeftinije uzvoziti iz latinske amerike. hiljade novih poslova je kreirano na latinoamerickim farmama, zarada od poreza se povecala, ameri su dobili asparagus boljeg kvaliteta i vise organski nego prije, dostupan cijele godine.....i sto je za mnoge amere najvaznije....za svaki dolar zarade za juznu ameriku, oko 70 centi se vracalo nazad u ameriku jer su mnogim ljudima poboljsao standard. i sta ima tu da ne valja? naravno da ima problema i manipulacija raznih i oko free trade, ali kad se ozbiljno i savjesno pristupi problemu moze se naci rjesenje da zadovoljava sve strane.jeza u ledja wrote:Radije bi da puno ljudi ima dobre poslove i da kupuju skupe proizvode, napravljene ovdje, nego da malo ljudi ima dobre poslove i kupuju jeftine proizvode, napravljene u inostranstvu.pitt wrote:jasta je hard working,......i mater bi prodao za funkciju .....a kako favorizuje filadelfiju u odnosu na druge dijelove drzave necu ni da spominjem.
Free trade pomaze i vladama i kompanijama i consumers (narodu) na svakoj strani. Pogledaj samo koliko stvari su tebi u americi pristupnacne i jeftinije nego da nema free trade....od nekih namirnica (voca i povrca) pa do automobila i ostalih "luksuznih" stvari. Jel treba svi sevije od 100K da vozimo da bi unije bile sretne?
Znaci Rendell ne valja kazes. Hmm, osjetim odredjenu dozu animoziteta na relaciji Pitt - Philly.![]()
To nesto ko Zenica - Sarajevo.
Ma endell je bio prije gradonacelnik fillija i nikada nije krio svoje simpatije prema istocnoj PA i filiju. Mnogi mu zamjeraju sto istocna strana vaxda vise para izvuce a i nezvanicno nas je umalo kostao sporazuma sa Pingvinima i novoj areni. Ma prelivoda i ulizica pravi...
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#1458 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Nije mi jasno to za 70 centi?!pitt wrote:Vidi ovo.....na jednom parkingu ispred sgrade jednih od unija pise "all foreign made cars will be towed at owners expense". Znaci ja ako dodjem u hondi ili toyoti odvuci ce mi auto.......a de ti meni reci zasto su to kompanije poput toyota koje imaju postrojenja po americi i koja zaposljavaju amerikance u njima zasluzili? I nisu svi producti jeftini i ne kvalitetni....podji od auta, tehnike ....i do nekih namirnica. Davno je bila studija o asparagusu iz wasingtomn state gdje se proizvodio godinama....dok nisu odlucili da ga je jeftinije uzvoziti iz latinske amerike. hiljade novih poslova je kreirano na latinoamerickim farmama, zarada od poreza se povecala, ameri su dobili asparagus boljeg kvaliteta i vise organski nego prije, dostupan cijele godine.....i sto je za mnoge amere najvaznije....za svaki dolar zarade za juznu ameriku, oko 70 centi se vracalo nazad u ameriku jer su mnogim ljudima poboljsao standard. i sta ima tu da ne valja? naravno da ima problema i manipulacija raznih i oko free trade, ali kad se ozbiljno i savjesno pristupi problemu moze se naci rjesenje da zadovoljava sve strane.jeza u ledja wrote:Radije bi da puno ljudi ima dobre poslove i da kupuju skupe proizvode, napravljene ovdje, nego da malo ljudi ima dobre poslove i kupuju jeftine proizvode, napravljene u inostranstvu.pitt wrote:jasta je hard working,......i mater bi prodao za funkciju .....a kako favorizuje filadelfiju u odnosu na druge dijelove drzave necu ni da spominjem.
Free trade pomaze i vladama i kompanijama i consumers (narodu) na svakoj strani. Pogledaj samo koliko stvari su tebi u americi pristupnacne i jeftinije nego da nema free trade....od nekih namirnica (voca i povrca) pa do automobila i ostalih "luksuznih" stvari. Jel treba svi sevije od 100K da vozimo da bi unije bile sretne?
Znaci Rendell ne valja kazes. Hmm, osjetim odredjenu dozu animoziteta na relaciji Pitt - Philly.![]()
To nesto ko Zenica - Sarajevo.
Sto se tice japanskih proizvoda to je druga stvar. Japan ima jasno regulisanu privredu na bazi liberalne ekonomije kao i Amerika i isti standard zivljenja.
Ali ako radis tzv. free trade sa Kinom koja subvencira svoje proizvodjace onda normalno tamo ce ljudi za manje pare proizvoditi nesto nego u Americi. I naravno, neko ce tamo dobiti posao, a ovdje izgubiti. I onda ce taj neko odavde kupovati jeftine proizvode iz Kine, ali ce ostati na tome. Dok onaj u Kini radi i zaradjuje i bogati se polako. Nakon 10 godina pogledas unazad i onaj sto je pravio u Kini radi u firmi koja se razvila, napravila nova postrojenjam zaposlila jos ljudi, itd. Sve od americkog kapitala. Ovaj u Americi je mozda ustedio pare, ali njegova firma stagnira ili je izgubio posao. Ko je tu donji? Ja sam jednom zasao po Walmartu, u koji odem jednom u pola godine, i zasao onako po policama, bukvalno svaki, ali bas svaki proizvod je napravljen u Kini.
Problem je u tome sto na jednoj strani imas kompanije koje rade sinhronizovano sa drzavom kojoj ide dio para, koje ona opet ulaze dalje, od koje profitiraju i domaci radnici i drzava i svi. Na drugoj strani imas zemlju u kojoj se sve cini da korporacije rade po svom i da drzava njima omoguci da se bogate, a oni, posto su nezavisni, odu u Kinu ili Meksiko, gdje imaju jeftinu radnu snagu. Ja ne vidim toliko jasnu relaciju izmedju napredka neke americke korporacije i povecanja standarda americkog stanovnistva. Naftne kompanije se bogate, rekao bi covjek vise poslova za sitnu raju, jest, al to mozda u Urugvaju. U Americi se od tog sistema samo bogate CEOs tih korporacija, ostalima pusha.
'Free trade' je ubleha, jer ne postoji 'free trade'. Kako mozes imati 'free trade' ako imas razlicite regulacije u razlicitim drzavama? Koja je onda poenta uopste drzava? Onda, ako se furamo na free trade hajmo ukinut sve granice pa cemo fino svi po istim pravilima igrati. Free trade nazalost sluzi najvise za lov u mutnom za velike korporacije.
Ja sam za slobodnu trgovinu samo sa zemljama koje ce igrati po istim pravilima kao i mi. Hoces free trade, onda napravi minimalac isti kao ovdje, regulisi takse, regulisi zakone o zastiti okolisa, regulisi zakone o pravima radnika, regulisi raznorazne subvencije, itd. Tako to rade u EU. A ne da moja kompanija u kojoj sam radio lupam 30 godina sutra ode u Cile, tamo skrha cijelo brdo, ne placa takse, unisti okolis i ne mora nikom da placa penale, uzima radnike za 10 puta manju platu od moje i onda sve to da bi meni koji sam ostao bez posla prodala jeftiniji proizvod... Kazem ti, to tako moze fercerat neko vrijeme, dok ove druge zemlje polako ne pocnu stajati na noge, kao Kina ili Brazil. Onda kad jednom kazu radnici eh hocemo vece plate, hocemo TV, auto, kucu, zdravstveno osiguranje, osiguranje posla, itd, onda nece biti tako lako praviti tamo jeftine proizvode, a drzava fino uleti pa to regulise (s obzirom da je drzava i originalno omogucila stranim investitorima da dodju, znaci da su brinuli za svoj narod), e kad se sve to desi imaces razvijenu zemlju na drugoj strani, sa jakom industrijom, a ovamo ces imati razvijenu zemlju sa gomilom 'service industries', ali proizvodnja nula poena.
Jos da kazem, u takvom sistemu, zemlja koja je vise otvorena prema free trade ce biti vise ovisna od nje, i onda ako se desi kakav rat, kriza, ovo ono, upravo ta zemlja ce vise patiti, jer joj se veze pokidaju. Dok zemlja koja ima mehanizme zastite svoje privrede nece.
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#1459 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
pa naravno da je tako jedino i ispravno....mora biti win-win situacija ili nema nista od toga.....jer ako je dobar ugovor onda n jedna strana nema incijativu da vara ili riskira (game theory, carlets) . Zato i nema ugovora sa mnogim zemljama vec samo nekim. A to o zatvorenojekonomiji iprotektoratu ne puije puno vode....pogledaj samo EU i probleme sa farmerima koje imaju (Francuska pogotovo). Najgore je sto zbog toga ispastaju farmetri u siromasnijim drzavama (istocna evropa) koji bi bili da o manjem trosku snabdjevaju razvijeen zemlje sa kvalitetnim proizvodima.
A to o 70 centi je bilo da posto je ovaj program napravio dosta novih radnih mjesta u juznoj americi, standard ljudi se poboljsao i uvoz americkih proizvoda je porastao....tako da se dio para vracao u ameriku opet. AMericki farmeri nisu puno izgubili jer su se samo sa asparagusa prebacili na novi proizvod koji je imao bolji prolaz na domacem trzistu....i svi sretni na kraju.
A to o 70 centi je bilo da posto je ovaj program napravio dosta novih radnih mjesta u juznoj americi, standard ljudi se poboljsao i uvoz americkih proizvoda je porastao....tako da se dio para vracao u ameriku opet. AMericki farmeri nisu puno izgubili jer su se samo sa asparagusa prebacili na novi proizvod koji je imao bolji prolaz na domacem trzistu....i svi sretni na kraju.
- jeza u ledja
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#1460 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
A jesi li procitala iz istog tog clanka ovaj pasus, malo iznad toga?hik--meta wrote:kad ovo vec sada rade iznad mason-dixon linije, kako li ce se tek na jesen angazovati ovi moji juznjaci.On Election Day in Kokomo, Indiana, a group of black high school students were holding up Obama signs along U.S. 31, a major thoroughfare. As drivers cruised by, a number of them rolled down their windows and yelled out a common racial slur for African Americans, according to Obama campaign staffers.
Razmisli malo o tome.The campaign released this statement in response to questions about encounters with racism: "After campaigning for 15 months in nearly all 50 states, Barack Obama and our entire campaign have been nothing but impressed and encouraged by the core decency, kindness, and generosity of Americans from all walks of life. The last year has only reinforced Senator Obama's view that this country is not as divided as our politics suggest."
PS: Dalje u tom clanku pise da je taj gradic Kokomo jednom odrzao najvece okupljanje KKK u historiji.
Last edited by jeza u ledja on 13/05/2008 19:58, edited 1 time in total.
- pitt
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#1461 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
pa ako je poll tacan, cak i vise bijelaca podrzava obamu. naravno, ja pollovima ne vjerujem nista .....gori su od meterologa


- jeza u ledja
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#1462 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Ma ja se vise ne osvrcem na trku sa Hillary. To je zavrsena prica. Ovo sto se do sada postiglo je veliki uspjeh, jedan crnac ce po prvi puta u historiji biti kandidat za predsjednika SAD.
Te ankete se vjerovatno odnose na demokratske glasove, sada treba gledati ankete izmedju McCaina i Obame.
O ekonomiji cemo nastavit kasnije.
Te ankete se vjerovatno odnose na demokratske glasove, sada treba gledati ankete izmedju McCaina i Obame.
O ekonomiji cemo nastavit kasnije.
- pitt
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#1463 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
ma ona ce morati progutati knedlu i endorse obamu....nema joj druge. a vidjet cemokad se sad sukobe mccain i obama ko ce imati bolje ideje. Ekonomija je jedan od glavnih izazova i srecom po obamu, mccain je laik.....sto ne znaci da nije opasan.
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Misirlija
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#1464 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
http://www.newyorker.com/
by Hendrik Hertzberg
May 19, 2008
Over Not Out

Democrats, Democratic Party When the polls closed in Indiana and North Carolina last Tuesday evening, a lot of Barack Obama supporters braced themselves for bad news. Their candidate had just gone through a harrowing month, divided neatly in two by his thumping in the Pennsylvania primary. He had been repeatedly gored by a pair of old bulls, his ex-President and his ex-pastor, both of them maddened by his success and aggrieved by his presumption. He had been singed in a media bonfire sparked by trivia and fanned into flame by culture-war-mongering. His remark about the bitterness of displaced workers supposedly made him an élitist; his glancing acquaintance with a sixty-something ex-Weatherman supposedly made him a friend of terrorists. On the stump, he seemed subdued, wearied by the bumpy last stage of the long, astonishing ascent he began fifteen months ago, when he set out to do battle with one of the most famous women in the world, whose arsenal included a huge war chest, backed by a fund-raising apparatus unparalleled in Democratic politics; the support of the great majority of Democratic officeholders ready to declare a preference; and, as her chief surrogate, the most successful Democratic politician of the past forty years. Although North Carolina had long been seen as a lock for Obama, on account of its large African-American population, there were late polls that put him and Hillary Clinton within the margin of error; Indiana seemed out of reach, according to the polls, which in any case had a record of overestimating his strength.
Losing both states probably wouldn’t have cost Obama the nomination, but it would have meant, at a minimum, a brutal, ugly, down-to-the-wire endgame guaranteed to leave the ultimate winner seriously, perhaps fatally, weakened. So when the returns started coming in, showing an Obama landslide in North Carolina and a shrinking Clinton lead in Indiana, Obama supporters looked at one another in happy wonderment. As Clinton’s margin in Indiana slipped below twenty thousand, Tim Russert, of NBC, went on the air to say, bluntly, “We now know who the Democratic nominee’s going to be, and no one’s going to dispute it.” Just after dawn, ABC’s George Stephanopoulos decreed, “This nomination fight is over.” On CBS, Bob Schieffer brought the networks to unanimity. “Basically,” he said, “this race is over.” And the New York Post hit the streets with cruel tabloid succinctness: a picture of the home-state senator over a single word—“TOAST!”—in block letters three inches high.
When and where, it is not too soon to ask, did she go wrong? Well, here’s one answer: eight years ago, in New York. If she had chosen, instead, to move to Illinois, where her accent is familiar and her connections deep (Chicago’s her home town, after all), she could have settled in and sought her Senate seat there, in 2004. She didn’t do that, presumably for reasons both marital (Bill’s not really a Second City kind of guy) and political (she would have had to run for President as a first-term senator rather than as a reëlected one). But Barack Obama would still be a local or regional up-and-comer and, most likely, a Hillary supporter. Here’s another: five and a half years ago, in Washington. If she had opposed authorizing the Iraq war, the activists—grassroots and netroots—might have mobilized for her rather than against her. She might have cruised to the nomination, and the Democratic Party might now be basking in the warm glow of being about to make history by electing the first woman President.
It is surely beyond galling for Hillary Clinton to find herself losing to a freshman senator who is young (forty-six, Bill Clinton’s age when he got elected), whose “firstness” matches hers, who has no executive experience at any level of government and not much foreign-policy experience of the conventional kind, and whom few Americans had heard of until, at John Kerry’s invitation, he stood up to deliver the keynote address at the 2004 Convention. You have to feel a little sorry for the Clintons, having their restoration upended by such an unlooked-for political phenomenon. But some months ago, when it dawned on the Clintons that “winning clean” might not be a viable option, they began to explore less elevated paths. The summertime gas-tax holiday that became her hobbyhorse in Indiana and North Carolina was one of the milder examples. Its original proposer was John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, yet it had no support in the White House, and virtually none in the Democratic Congress. A hundred economists, including liberal stalwarts like James Galbraith, Alice Rivlin, and the Nobelist Joseph Stiglitz, denounced it, and the Clinton campaign could find none to endorse it. Obama rejected it, rightly, as a gimmick, and said that at best it might save the average motorist a total of thirty dollars. Even that was too generous; according to the economists, it would probably just transfer revenue from the government to the oil companies. It was a pseudo-populist hoax—an act of condescension far more profound than Obama’s remark about bitterness. And, to judge by the results last Tuesday, it was a failure as a political ploy.
The TV pundits were both right and wrong. They were right that we now know who the nominee will be, but they were wrong about the race being over. Much will depend on how it gets to be over and, especially, on how Senator Clinton behaves. Her speech in Indiana was incoherent, part valedictory (“This has been an extraordinary experience”), part battle cry (“Full speed on to the White House!”), but more the latter than the former. She demanded that her Florida and Michigan delegates, elected in defiance of Party rules that she had agreed to follow, be fully accredited. “It would be a little strange to have a nominee chosen by forty-eight states,” she said, and her husband, in an e-mail to supporters, added, “People want Hillary to stay in this race until every last voter has a say.” (Never mind that in January the Clintons’ chamberlain, Terry McAuliffe, had called the race “a twenty-seven-state contest” that would be “over on February 5th.”) Still, her speech was notably free of attacks on Obama or insinuations about his color.
The next day, however, in an instantly notorious interview with USA Today, Clinton was back to arguing her superior electability. “There was just an A.P. article posted that found how Senator Obama’s support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how the whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me,” she said. “ There’s a pattern emerging here.”
Indeed there is, and it should be painted over as soon as possible. Hillary Clinton, as her record from high school onward proves, is the very opposite of a racist. This time, she seems to have well and truly misspoken. But if she plans to drag the contest out for another month or two she will be wise to avoid this sort of demographic analysis—and, more important, to abandon the dishonorable political strategy that underlies it. If she doesn’t, it won’t just be Chicago that she didn’t go back to. It’ll be a place called hope. ♦
by Hendrik Hertzberg
May 19, 2008
Over Not Out

Democrats, Democratic Party When the polls closed in Indiana and North Carolina last Tuesday evening, a lot of Barack Obama supporters braced themselves for bad news. Their candidate had just gone through a harrowing month, divided neatly in two by his thumping in the Pennsylvania primary. He had been repeatedly gored by a pair of old bulls, his ex-President and his ex-pastor, both of them maddened by his success and aggrieved by his presumption. He had been singed in a media bonfire sparked by trivia and fanned into flame by culture-war-mongering. His remark about the bitterness of displaced workers supposedly made him an élitist; his glancing acquaintance with a sixty-something ex-Weatherman supposedly made him a friend of terrorists. On the stump, he seemed subdued, wearied by the bumpy last stage of the long, astonishing ascent he began fifteen months ago, when he set out to do battle with one of the most famous women in the world, whose arsenal included a huge war chest, backed by a fund-raising apparatus unparalleled in Democratic politics; the support of the great majority of Democratic officeholders ready to declare a preference; and, as her chief surrogate, the most successful Democratic politician of the past forty years. Although North Carolina had long been seen as a lock for Obama, on account of its large African-American population, there were late polls that put him and Hillary Clinton within the margin of error; Indiana seemed out of reach, according to the polls, which in any case had a record of overestimating his strength.
Losing both states probably wouldn’t have cost Obama the nomination, but it would have meant, at a minimum, a brutal, ugly, down-to-the-wire endgame guaranteed to leave the ultimate winner seriously, perhaps fatally, weakened. So when the returns started coming in, showing an Obama landslide in North Carolina and a shrinking Clinton lead in Indiana, Obama supporters looked at one another in happy wonderment. As Clinton’s margin in Indiana slipped below twenty thousand, Tim Russert, of NBC, went on the air to say, bluntly, “We now know who the Democratic nominee’s going to be, and no one’s going to dispute it.” Just after dawn, ABC’s George Stephanopoulos decreed, “This nomination fight is over.” On CBS, Bob Schieffer brought the networks to unanimity. “Basically,” he said, “this race is over.” And the New York Post hit the streets with cruel tabloid succinctness: a picture of the home-state senator over a single word—“TOAST!”—in block letters three inches high.
When and where, it is not too soon to ask, did she go wrong? Well, here’s one answer: eight years ago, in New York. If she had chosen, instead, to move to Illinois, where her accent is familiar and her connections deep (Chicago’s her home town, after all), she could have settled in and sought her Senate seat there, in 2004. She didn’t do that, presumably for reasons both marital (Bill’s not really a Second City kind of guy) and political (she would have had to run for President as a first-term senator rather than as a reëlected one). But Barack Obama would still be a local or regional up-and-comer and, most likely, a Hillary supporter. Here’s another: five and a half years ago, in Washington. If she had opposed authorizing the Iraq war, the activists—grassroots and netroots—might have mobilized for her rather than against her. She might have cruised to the nomination, and the Democratic Party might now be basking in the warm glow of being about to make history by electing the first woman President.
It is surely beyond galling for Hillary Clinton to find herself losing to a freshman senator who is young (forty-six, Bill Clinton’s age when he got elected), whose “firstness” matches hers, who has no executive experience at any level of government and not much foreign-policy experience of the conventional kind, and whom few Americans had heard of until, at John Kerry’s invitation, he stood up to deliver the keynote address at the 2004 Convention. You have to feel a little sorry for the Clintons, having their restoration upended by such an unlooked-for political phenomenon. But some months ago, when it dawned on the Clintons that “winning clean” might not be a viable option, they began to explore less elevated paths. The summertime gas-tax holiday that became her hobbyhorse in Indiana and North Carolina was one of the milder examples. Its original proposer was John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee, yet it had no support in the White House, and virtually none in the Democratic Congress. A hundred economists, including liberal stalwarts like James Galbraith, Alice Rivlin, and the Nobelist Joseph Stiglitz, denounced it, and the Clinton campaign could find none to endorse it. Obama rejected it, rightly, as a gimmick, and said that at best it might save the average motorist a total of thirty dollars. Even that was too generous; according to the economists, it would probably just transfer revenue from the government to the oil companies. It was a pseudo-populist hoax—an act of condescension far more profound than Obama’s remark about bitterness. And, to judge by the results last Tuesday, it was a failure as a political ploy.
The TV pundits were both right and wrong. They were right that we now know who the nominee will be, but they were wrong about the race being over. Much will depend on how it gets to be over and, especially, on how Senator Clinton behaves. Her speech in Indiana was incoherent, part valedictory (“This has been an extraordinary experience”), part battle cry (“Full speed on to the White House!”), but more the latter than the former. She demanded that her Florida and Michigan delegates, elected in defiance of Party rules that she had agreed to follow, be fully accredited. “It would be a little strange to have a nominee chosen by forty-eight states,” she said, and her husband, in an e-mail to supporters, added, “People want Hillary to stay in this race until every last voter has a say.” (Never mind that in January the Clintons’ chamberlain, Terry McAuliffe, had called the race “a twenty-seven-state contest” that would be “over on February 5th.”) Still, her speech was notably free of attacks on Obama or insinuations about his color.
The next day, however, in an instantly notorious interview with USA Today, Clinton was back to arguing her superior electability. “There was just an A.P. article posted that found how Senator Obama’s support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how the whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me,” she said. “ There’s a pattern emerging here.”
Indeed there is, and it should be painted over as soon as possible. Hillary Clinton, as her record from high school onward proves, is the very opposite of a racist. This time, she seems to have well and truly misspoken. But if she plans to drag the contest out for another month or two she will be wise to avoid this sort of demographic analysis—and, more important, to abandon the dishonorable political strategy that underlies it. If she doesn’t, it won’t just be Chicago that she didn’t go back to. It’ll be a place called hope. ♦
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50304
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1465 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
U broju superdelegata vec je +9 za Obamu. Ja mislim samo prije 7 dana je bilo +10 za Hilku. Tako je Huso u 7 dana dobio vise boba nego sto ce danas Hilka uzeti u WV. Jos malo. 
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walkabout
- Posts: 7869
- Joined: 19/05/2007 00:46
#1466 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
evo vec se pomalo nadzire kako ce to biti ako Obama bude protiv McCain-a (a nakon podrske Edwards-a izgleda da ce tako i da bude)...cak i da nekim cudom Hillary bude demokratski kandidat, i ona bi bila u podredjenoj poziciji prema McCain-u...
"major" "shareholders" hoce nekog ko ce raditi ono sto oni zele...a trenutno je McCain jedini koji im "svira na uho"...
zar se zaista vjeruje da ce Obama moci proci sa svojim "revolucionarnim/radikalnim" idejama/stavovima...
ah da...izbori,demokracija...jedino ako je "popularnost" kandidata ispod ~25% onda to moze (a ne mora) biti problem...u protivnom, to se da malo nasminkati/navuci...
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White House hopeful Barack Obama has accused President George W Bush of tainting US foreign policy with the "politics of fear" after the US leader implied in Israel that Democrats would appease terrorists.
Bush's comments, in a speech to the Israeli parliament, ignited a fierce election-year row between the White House and the Illinois senator, in the president's most direct clash yet with Democrats vying to succeed him.
"Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," Bush said, drawing parallels with 1930s accommodation of the Nazis.
"We have an obligation to call this what it is - the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."
The White House denied the comments directly targeted Obama, who has said he would be ready to hold direct talks with leaders of US foes including Iran and Syria, which the Bush administration has shunned.
But an angry Obama, who holds an overwhelming lead in his Democratic nominating contest against Hillary Clinton, swiftly hit back in a statement, as his campaign accused Bush of adopting "cowboy diplomacy."
"George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president's extraordinary politicisation of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel," Obama said.
"It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack," he said.
"Instead of tough talk and no action, we need to do what Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan did and use all elements of American power - including tough, principled, and direct diplomacy -- to pressure countries like Iran and Syria."
Obama's intervention came as his campaign tries to shift the focus away from his climaxing nominating tussle with Clinton and towards a general-election showdown with Republican John McCain.
White House press secretary Dana Perino was asked whether Bush had intended to refer directly to Obama.
"I understand when you're running for office you sometimes think the world revolves around you -- that is not always true and it is not true in this case," she said.
Another Bush spokesman, Gordon Johndroe, said "it is not specifically referring to any individual and doesn't exclude any individual."
Obama said in a Democratic presidential debate last July that he would be willing to hold talks, without preconditions, with the leaders of top US foes including Iran, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba.
In a subsequent debate in April, Obama renewed his offer for direct talks at a leaders' level with Tehran, saying the Islamic Republic should be pressed with "carrots and sticks" to end its nuclear program.
But also said he would take no option off the table to stop Tehran from using or obtaining nuclear weapons.
The row overshadowed a major speech by McCain, who for the first time laid out a timeline to end the Iraq war, arguing he would get most US troops home by 2013 if elected president.
The Arizona senator said also that al-Qaeda mastermind Osama bin Laden would be captured or killed, and that the threat from the Taliban in Afghanistan would be greatly reduced by the end of his first term in the White House.
"By January 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom," McCain said in Columbus, Ohio.
"The Iraq war has been won. Iraq is a functioning democracy, although still suffering from the lingering effects of decades of tyranny and centuries of sectarian tension," he said in his crystal ball speech.
McCain's comments appeared to be an effort to neutralise an attack by Democrats who argue he is ready to fight a 100-year war in Iraq, as he limbers up his campaign for November's general election.
AFP
"major" "shareholders" hoce nekog ko ce raditi ono sto oni zele...a trenutno je McCain jedini koji im "svira na uho"...
zar se zaista vjeruje da ce Obama moci proci sa svojim "revolucionarnim/radikalnim" idejama/stavovima...
ah da...izbori,demokracija...jedino ako je "popularnost" kandidata ispod ~25% onda to moze (a ne mora) biti problem...u protivnom, to se da malo nasminkati/navuci...
-------------------------------------------
White House hopeful Barack Obama has accused President George W Bush of tainting US foreign policy with the "politics of fear" after the US leader implied in Israel that Democrats would appease terrorists.
Bush's comments, in a speech to the Israeli parliament, ignited a fierce election-year row between the White House and the Illinois senator, in the president's most direct clash yet with Democrats vying to succeed him.
"Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along," Bush said, drawing parallels with 1930s accommodation of the Nazis.
"We have an obligation to call this what it is - the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."
The White House denied the comments directly targeted Obama, who has said he would be ready to hold direct talks with leaders of US foes including Iran and Syria, which the Bush administration has shunned.
But an angry Obama, who holds an overwhelming lead in his Democratic nominating contest against Hillary Clinton, swiftly hit back in a statement, as his campaign accused Bush of adopting "cowboy diplomacy."
"George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president's extraordinary politicisation of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel," Obama said.
"It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack," he said.
"Instead of tough talk and no action, we need to do what Kennedy, Nixon and Reagan did and use all elements of American power - including tough, principled, and direct diplomacy -- to pressure countries like Iran and Syria."
Obama's intervention came as his campaign tries to shift the focus away from his climaxing nominating tussle with Clinton and towards a general-election showdown with Republican John McCain.
White House press secretary Dana Perino was asked whether Bush had intended to refer directly to Obama.
"I understand when you're running for office you sometimes think the world revolves around you -- that is not always true and it is not true in this case," she said.
Another Bush spokesman, Gordon Johndroe, said "it is not specifically referring to any individual and doesn't exclude any individual."
Obama said in a Democratic presidential debate last July that he would be willing to hold talks, without preconditions, with the leaders of top US foes including Iran, Syria, North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba.
In a subsequent debate in April, Obama renewed his offer for direct talks at a leaders' level with Tehran, saying the Islamic Republic should be pressed with "carrots and sticks" to end its nuclear program.
But also said he would take no option off the table to stop Tehran from using or obtaining nuclear weapons.
The row overshadowed a major speech by McCain, who for the first time laid out a timeline to end the Iraq war, arguing he would get most US troops home by 2013 if elected president.
The Arizona senator said also that al-Qaeda mastermind Osama bin Laden would be captured or killed, and that the threat from the Taliban in Afghanistan would be greatly reduced by the end of his first term in the White House.
"By January 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom," McCain said in Columbus, Ohio.
"The Iraq war has been won. Iraq is a functioning democracy, although still suffering from the lingering effects of decades of tyranny and centuries of sectarian tension," he said in his crystal ball speech.
McCain's comments appeared to be an effort to neutralise an attack by Democrats who argue he is ready to fight a 100-year war in Iraq, as he limbers up his campaign for November's general election.
AFP
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omar little
- Posts: 17279
- Joined: 14/03/2008 21:14
#1467 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Nesto kako citam o Edwards-u i Obami mislim si pa mozda stvarno ne bi bilo lose njega stavit na tiKet? Pobro bi dosta Hilkinih glasaca radnicke klase, ne bi dobio Hispanics ali mozda ne bi bilo lose...Doduse meni se svidjala Edwards-ova platforma od pocetka pa sam malo subjektivna, ali meni to ne bi bilo lose...U drugu ruku, mozda bi to bilo malo previse za generalno konzervativno/centristicko glasacko tijelo Amerike...
- Saian
- Posts: 16031
- Joined: 08/04/2004 21:50
#1468 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
gledao sam ja te poslove na farmama, rade za nista, spricaju to voce, povrche i cvijece i sta sve ne proizvode sa chitavom kolekcijom pesticida koji su u Europi i Americi zabranjeni, sve pod pritiskom tih koji otkupljuju to voce, povrche i cvijece (citaj velikim trgovinskim lancima) da dobiju shampione u brzom rastu i velichini, za sto manje para, to sto je zastita pri radu u Latinskoj Americi, recimo u El Salvadoru misaona imenica, hebo to, niko ih ne tjera zar ne (mozda glad samo), a korelacija koja meni nije pala na pamet je recimo izmedju hebene ruzhe koju uzgajaju i broja ubistava i silovanja u selu blizu plantazhe, naime radnici dolaze iz svih dijelova zemlje, niko ih ne pita sta su, ko su, samo spricaj ruzhe, a onda se mjestani snebivaju kad dosljaci pochnu precugavat poslije posla i silovat konobarice, ruzhe i sparoge ih hebu u svakom pogledu pa i u onima koje nama na prvu ne mogu past na pamet, ja se pitam zasto sparoge moraju biti dostupne cijele godine, mislim koji kua, moji starci su odrasli na sezonskom vocu i povrcu i kladim se, ako nisu od tog imali zdravstvene koristi definitivno nisu imali ni posljedica bilo kakvihpitt wrote:
hiljade novih poslova je kreirano na latinoamerickim farmama, zarada od poreza se povecala, ameri su dobili asparagus boljeg kvaliteta i vise organski nego prije, dostupan cijele godine.....i sto je za mnoge amere najvaznije....za svaki dolar zarade za juznu ameriku, oko 70 centi se vracalo nazad u ameriku jer su mnogim ljudima poboljsao standard.
pitt wrote: i sta ima tu da ne valja? naravno da ima problema i manipulacija raznih i oko free trade, ali kad se ozbiljno i savjesno pristupi problemu moze se naci rjesenje da zadovoljava sve strane.
John Maynard KeynesCapitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50304
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1469 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Pa....sve to stoji, ali ima jedna velika falinka - Edwards je vec bio na ticketu zajedno sa Kerryjem - i izgubio. Njegova kandidatura nije nimalo pomogla pobjedi u Carolinama ili bilo gdje drugo na jugu. Uopste, VP nema nekog presudnog uticaja na rezultate izbora, tako je bilo do sada. Medjutim, ovi izbori su vec sami po sebi cudni, Hilka je uzela maltene pola glasova u prajmariz i postavlja se pitanje da li bi zajednicki ticket sa njom bio recept za uspjeh? Mozda Obamini trebaju progutati knedlu i ponuditi joj tu poziciju? To bi bilo kao neko sveopste ujedinjenje. Medjutim, kako sam shvatio Obamini nisu bas voljni da to urade jer to nije u skladu sa njihovom porukom 'promjena'. Pitanje je i sta to Hilka donosi sa sobom jer njeni glasovi su velikom vecinom dosli iz vec utvrdjenih bastiona Demokrata - New York, California, New England. Te glasove ce svakako Demokrati dobiti. Ali, Obami su potrebne bobe iz velikih swing states - Florida, Pennsylvania i Ohio. Od ove tri, PA je uzeo Kerry na proslim izborima, ostale dvije uzeo je Bush. Da je bilo FL ili OH bila u demokratskom taboru Kerry bi danas bio predsjednik. Sto se tice Floride, kako stvari danas stoje, Obama nema nikakve sanse protiv McCaina. Ankete pokazuju 10 boba zaostatka za matorim. Razlog - matorost. Na Floridi bi Hilka imala mnogo bolje izglede protiv McCaina, zbog velikog broja Njujorcana, Jevreja, i naravno pemzije.omar little wrote:Nesto kako citam o Edwards-u i Obami mislim si pa mozda stvarno ne bi bilo lose njega stavit na tiKet? Pobro bi dosta Hilkinih glasaca radnicke klase, ne bi dobio Hispanics ali mozda ne bi bilo lose...Doduse meni se svidjala Edwards-ova platforma od pocetka pa sam malo subjektivna, ali meni to ne bi bilo lose...U drugu ruku, mozda bi to bilo malo previse za generalno konzervativno/centristicko glasacko tijelo Amerike...
U Ohiu i Pennsylvaniji Hilka stoji bolje od Obame. Ankete ternutno pokazuju blaaagu prednost Obame u PA u odnosu na McCaina, te blaagu prednost McCaina u Ohiju. Otprilike haman onako kako su zavrsili izbori 2004. Tu bi Hilka mogla donjeti prevagu.
Medjutim, Obama racuna na neke nove bodove i to od manjih drzava na zapadu zemlje: Colorado, Nevada, New Mexico i North Dakota(?!). Trenutno vodi u anketama u ovim drzavama. Sve one su glasale za Busha 2004-e. Takodje, u anketama Obama bi uzeo Iowu, koja je glasala za Busha. Sa 3-4 ove drzave u Obaminoj rubrici njemu ne treba Ohio ili Florida, a pitanje je kako bi ti novi glasaci na zapadu prihvatili Clintonovu na ticketu.
Dalje, na jugu Obama izgleda ima sanse u Carolinama i mooozda eventualno Virginiji. U NC je po nekim anketama prakticno izjednacen sa McCainom, dok neke druge daju McCainu blagu prednost. Sta bi Obami tu moglo pomoci da pobjedi ne znam, ali Edwards je rodjen u SC i bio senator iz NC.
I dalje mislim da bi Obami bilo najbolje da izabere nekog Clintoninog supportera, koji je popularan u nekoj regiji. Strickland i Rendell su demokratski guverneri Ohia i Pennsylvanije, tu je jos Jim Webb, guverner Virginije. Sve su to drzave koje donose dosta boba. Zasto jednostavno ne izaberu jednog od njih, po mogucnosti Stricklanda i tako donesu tih 5% prevage na generalnim izborima protiv McCaina?
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50304
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1470 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Malo da analiziramo.
Ovo su drzave koje su 100% sigurne za McCaina, zajedno sa brojem boba:
Alabama 9
Alaska 3
Arizona 10
Arkansas 6
Georgia 15
Idaho 4
Indiana 11
Kansas 6
Kentucky 8
Louisiana 9
Mississippi 6
Missouri 11
Montana 3
Nebraska 5
North Carolina 15
North Dakota 3
Oklahoma 7
South Carolina 8
South Dakota 3
Tennessee 11
Texas 34
Utah 5
Virginia 13
West Virginia 5
Wyoming 3
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213
Ovo su drzave sigurne za Obamu:
California 55
Connecticut 7
D.C. 3
Delaware 3
Hawaii 4
Illinois 21
Maine 4
Maryland 10
Massachusetts 12
Minnesota 10
New Jersey 15
New York 31
Oregon 7
Rhode Island 4
Vermont 3
Washington 11
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200
Ovo su drzave koje ce biti 'swing states'. Prvo sam poredao one koje su na proslim izborima glasale za Busha, a koje bi mogao uzeti Obama, pa onda one koje su glasale za Kerryja, a koje bi sada mogao uzeti McCain.
Republikanske:
Colorado 9 - CO Obama od svih ovih drzava ima najvise sansi da uzme, trenutno vodi u svim anketama kontra McCaina. Kako sada stvari stoje, CO ima velike sanse da predje na stranu Dems. Na zadnjem pollu, koji je radjen prije mjesec dana, Obama je bio 3% iznad McCaina. U CO je Bush 2004-e pobjedio sa 5%+.
Florida 27 - FL je Kerry izgubio 47%-52% protiv Busha kao i u Coloradu. Trenutno, tesko da se Florida moze uopste nazvati 'swing state' jer McCain ubjedljivo vodi u svim anketama u zadnja dva mjeseca. Osim u najnovijoj anketi u kojoj je odnos 43%-44% u korist McCaina. S obzirom na sve sto se desavalo sa Floridom i Michiganom u demokratskim prajmariz treba uzeti i to u obzir.
Iowa 7 - U stvari sad kad gledam Iowu, u njoj Obama ima cak i mnogo vise sansi nego u Coloradu. U anketama vodi po desetak bodova protiv McCaina. Ova drzava sigurno ide njemu. 2004-e ju je Bush tijesno pobijedio sa 50%-49%.
Nevada 5 - U Nevadi je Bush pobjedio za 3%. Zadnja anketa iz aprila pokazuje da McCain vodi sa 5%, ali to je bilo usred one price o Wrightu. Prije toga, u svim anketama vodio je Obama. Zajedno sa Coloradom i Iowom, pod uslovom da sve ostalo ostane isto, Demokrate bi imale vise glasova od Republikanaca.
New Mexico 5 - U NM u zadnje dvije ankete u aprilu su pobjedili McCain u jednoj, Obama u drugoj. Ovi sto su radili anketu gdje je pobjedio McCain su isto to uradili u martu i februaru i u njima je pobjedio Obama. New Mexico je Bush jedva uzeo za 1% 2004-e. Nista se ne zna.?!
Demokratske:
Michigan 17 - e Michigan ce biti zeznut. Nije ni cudo sto je Obama odmah tamo poletio na general election kampanju. U MI je Kerry 2004-e pobjedio za 3%, to je tradicionalno 'plava' drzava, ali vjerovatno zbog svih desavanja na prajmariz dosta ljudi se okrenulo protiv Demokrata. U zadnje dvije ankete, odrzane u maju McCain je vodio 44%-43%. U anketama odrzanim u prijasnjim mjesecima McCain je uglavnom imao istu toliku blagu prednost. Postoji sansa da ova drzava ode Republikancima, a s obzirom da je povelika tesko bi se to moglo nadoknaditi drugdje.
New Hampshire 4 - Nisam prije obracao paznju na ovu drzavu. Tamo je Kerry jedva pobjedio sa 1%. Navodno NH je poznat po svojim 'independents'. Sve zadnje ankete ukazuju na pobjedu McCaina, koji je pravo popularan medju 'nezavisnim', a znamo da mu je NH donio presudjujucu prednost u GOP prajmariz zimus. Kako sada stvari stoje, ova drzava ce vjerovatno ici u 'crvenu' rubriku.
Wisconsin 10 - Wisconsin je 2004-e uzeo Kerry za 1%. U zadnjoj anketi radjenoj prosle sedmice McCain vodi za 4 bobe. Prije toga u aprilu je Obama pobjedio u tri ankete sa 3-5% U martu je u anketama 1:1.
Za kraj sam namjerno ostavio Ohio koji nosi 20 boba i Pennsylvaniju koja nosi 21 bobu. Ove dvije drzave definitivno ce biti epicentar generalnih izbora 2008-e. Ako se recimo desi da, po ovome gore, Obama preotme 3 od ove 4 drzave: Colorado, Nevadu, New Mexico ili Iowu, a McCain preotme New Hampshire, a sve drugo ostane isto - Obama i McCain bi u nekim kombinacijama doslovce imali isto boba
. Dakle, PA, koja je 2004-e pripala Kerryju (51%-49%) i Ohio, koji je 2004-e pripao Bushu (49%-51%) ce biti najvaznije drzave. Ako neko uzme obje on ce gotovo sigurno biti pobjednik sljedecih izbora. Zato smatram da bi Obami izuzetno pomoglo da kao potpredsjednickog kandidata uzme Stricklanda ili Rendella. Obojica su izuzetno popularni u svojim drzavama, a i to su susjedne drzave i dosta slicne i mogli bi povuci sa sobom radnicku masu iz obje.
Evo nasao sam negdje approval rating Stricklanda i negdje je izmedju 55% i 60% (oko 35%-40%) ga dissaprove, to je kao guvernera Ohia. Ako on moze donjeti tu prevagu od 2% koju je imao Bush 2004-e, a moze, zasto ne njega uzeti kao VP? Njega ce podrzati Clintoni njihovi dronovi.
On bi po meni bio najbolje rjesenje, naravno, ako on to uopste hoce. Ja ga spominjem samo zato sto sam cuo na TVu
kao jednog od mogucih kandidata. A cuo sam hipter nekih imena (Clinton, Edwards, Strickland, Rendell, Webb, Richardson, Clark, Biden...).
PS: Jos da napomenem da u je Virginiji, North Carolini i South Carolini, i Nebraski
, pa i Indiani tradicionalnim republikanskim drzavama Obama dosta blizu McCainu u anketama.
Ovo su drzave koje su 100% sigurne za McCaina, zajedno sa brojem boba:
Alabama 9
Alaska 3
Arizona 10
Arkansas 6
Georgia 15
Idaho 4
Indiana 11
Kansas 6
Kentucky 8
Louisiana 9
Mississippi 6
Missouri 11
Montana 3
Nebraska 5
North Carolina 15
North Dakota 3
Oklahoma 7
South Carolina 8
South Dakota 3
Tennessee 11
Texas 34
Utah 5
Virginia 13
West Virginia 5
Wyoming 3
------------------
213
Ovo su drzave sigurne za Obamu:
California 55
Connecticut 7
D.C. 3
Delaware 3
Hawaii 4
Illinois 21
Maine 4
Maryland 10
Massachusetts 12
Minnesota 10
New Jersey 15
New York 31
Oregon 7
Rhode Island 4
Vermont 3
Washington 11
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200
Ovo su drzave koje ce biti 'swing states'. Prvo sam poredao one koje su na proslim izborima glasale za Busha, a koje bi mogao uzeti Obama, pa onda one koje su glasale za Kerryja, a koje bi sada mogao uzeti McCain.
Republikanske:
Colorado 9 - CO Obama od svih ovih drzava ima najvise sansi da uzme, trenutno vodi u svim anketama kontra McCaina. Kako sada stvari stoje, CO ima velike sanse da predje na stranu Dems. Na zadnjem pollu, koji je radjen prije mjesec dana, Obama je bio 3% iznad McCaina. U CO je Bush 2004-e pobjedio sa 5%+.
Florida 27 - FL je Kerry izgubio 47%-52% protiv Busha kao i u Coloradu. Trenutno, tesko da se Florida moze uopste nazvati 'swing state' jer McCain ubjedljivo vodi u svim anketama u zadnja dva mjeseca. Osim u najnovijoj anketi u kojoj je odnos 43%-44% u korist McCaina. S obzirom na sve sto se desavalo sa Floridom i Michiganom u demokratskim prajmariz treba uzeti i to u obzir.
Iowa 7 - U stvari sad kad gledam Iowu, u njoj Obama ima cak i mnogo vise sansi nego u Coloradu. U anketama vodi po desetak bodova protiv McCaina. Ova drzava sigurno ide njemu. 2004-e ju je Bush tijesno pobijedio sa 50%-49%.
Nevada 5 - U Nevadi je Bush pobjedio za 3%. Zadnja anketa iz aprila pokazuje da McCain vodi sa 5%, ali to je bilo usred one price o Wrightu. Prije toga, u svim anketama vodio je Obama. Zajedno sa Coloradom i Iowom, pod uslovom da sve ostalo ostane isto, Demokrate bi imale vise glasova od Republikanaca.
New Mexico 5 - U NM u zadnje dvije ankete u aprilu su pobjedili McCain u jednoj, Obama u drugoj. Ovi sto su radili anketu gdje je pobjedio McCain su isto to uradili u martu i februaru i u njima je pobjedio Obama. New Mexico je Bush jedva uzeo za 1% 2004-e. Nista se ne zna.?!
Demokratske:
Michigan 17 - e Michigan ce biti zeznut. Nije ni cudo sto je Obama odmah tamo poletio na general election kampanju. U MI je Kerry 2004-e pobjedio za 3%, to je tradicionalno 'plava' drzava, ali vjerovatno zbog svih desavanja na prajmariz dosta ljudi se okrenulo protiv Demokrata. U zadnje dvije ankete, odrzane u maju McCain je vodio 44%-43%. U anketama odrzanim u prijasnjim mjesecima McCain je uglavnom imao istu toliku blagu prednost. Postoji sansa da ova drzava ode Republikancima, a s obzirom da je povelika tesko bi se to moglo nadoknaditi drugdje.
New Hampshire 4 - Nisam prije obracao paznju na ovu drzavu. Tamo je Kerry jedva pobjedio sa 1%. Navodno NH je poznat po svojim 'independents'. Sve zadnje ankete ukazuju na pobjedu McCaina, koji je pravo popularan medju 'nezavisnim', a znamo da mu je NH donio presudjujucu prednost u GOP prajmariz zimus. Kako sada stvari stoje, ova drzava ce vjerovatno ici u 'crvenu' rubriku.
Wisconsin 10 - Wisconsin je 2004-e uzeo Kerry za 1%. U zadnjoj anketi radjenoj prosle sedmice McCain vodi za 4 bobe. Prije toga u aprilu je Obama pobjedio u tri ankete sa 3-5% U martu je u anketama 1:1.
Za kraj sam namjerno ostavio Ohio koji nosi 20 boba i Pennsylvaniju koja nosi 21 bobu. Ove dvije drzave definitivno ce biti epicentar generalnih izbora 2008-e. Ako se recimo desi da, po ovome gore, Obama preotme 3 od ove 4 drzave: Colorado, Nevadu, New Mexico ili Iowu, a McCain preotme New Hampshire, a sve drugo ostane isto - Obama i McCain bi u nekim kombinacijama doslovce imali isto boba
PS: Jos da napomenem da u je Virginiji, North Carolini i South Carolini, i Nebraski
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50304
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1471 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Obama neki dan u Portlandu skupio 80,000 dusa.




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gulas
- Posts: 104
- Joined: 12/05/2008 20:46
#1472 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Au ovo ko na Gazimestanujeza u ledja wrote:Obama neki dan u Portlandu skupio 80,000 dusa.![]()
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omar little
- Posts: 17279
- Joined: 14/03/2008 21:14
#1473 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
hebem ti kentucky 
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jefferson
- Posts: 14969
- Joined: 28/08/2007 05:31
- Location: U.S.A
#1474 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Ni Mississippi nije seljacka drzava ko kentacky!
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BornInHell
- Posts: 417
- Joined: 09/04/2008 05:08
#1475 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz

hajmo obama vise zavrsi ovaj maraton
