Donald J Trump - Predsjednik USA All About

[insomnia78]

Mislio sam da pricas o imigrantima

[drastic]

Aha, imaju vile na plazama El Salvadora cujem.

ovi drugi nemaju nikakve

Poredis neusporedivo. Uvijek ce biti grupe u America kojima ce trebati pomoc. U bilo kom trenutku, ne samo sad nakon pozara. Ne moze se cekati da se pomogne sve i jednom Amerikancu da bi se pomoglo nekom ko to nije. U teoriji moze svasta.

U svakom slucaju 99% ovih ljudi ce za godinu-dvije imati bolji zivot nego 99% ovih sto ih suzavcem po Tijuani ganjaju.

drugacije bi govorio da je neko tvoj u pitanju. ovi ljudi nisu kao ostali beskucnici na ulicama s.f ili l.a.

[madner]

To jednostavno nije objektivan stav, ako se ne gleda sum oko Trumpa ima solidnu politiku za nizu i srednju klasu.

Aha:





I to mjesta u kojim su glasaci u najvecim procentima presli sa glasanja za Dems na Trumpa. Brilliant!

Inace, jedan od razloga koje je GM naveo za ovo zatvaranje su nove tarife koje su uvedene zbog rata tarifama sa Kinom i ostatkom svijeta. Brilliant!

Jah, izuzetak i pravilo

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/03/job-gai ... -1995.html

Trump je povecao konkuretnost americkih firmi sa poreskom reformom, suzbija nelegalnu konkurenciju unutar i izvan granica, plate raste i za taj sektor. To su cinjenice, sta god mislio o Homeru.

[jeza u ledja]

Tako je, sve super. Kad se pregrije i pukne, doci ce neko drugi da pocisti, kao sto su cistili i za Bushom i za babom mu. Al dobro, ne trebam ja to tebi objasnjavati jer ti znas dosta.

Kad je ekonomija rasla za vrijeme Obame, to je bio fake news, jel, frizirani podaci.

Inace stock market je pogubio sve gains za ovu godinu.

[jeza u ledja]

drugacije bi govorio da je neko tvoj u pitanju. ovi ljudi nisu kao ostali beskucnici na ulicama s.f ili l.a.

Kao neko kome jeste izgorio stan i ostao bez igdje icega mislim da znam kako im je vise nego prosjecan Amerikanac. A kako bi govorio da je neko moj u pitanju, ko zna. Isto kao sto ne znam kako bi govorio da je neko moj u pitanju danas u Tijuani.

Usput, ovako neki Amerikanac isto moze reci - sta cemo mi Bosanci u njoj, uzimamo poslove Amerima i to.

[jeza u ledja]

Dobar clanak danas u Timesu:

Opinion
We Need a High Wall With a Big Gate
With Trump using immigration simply for political gain, Democrats need to be the adults and offer a realistic, comprehensive approach.

By Thomas L. Friedman
Opinion Columnist

Nov. 27, 2018

LIMA, Peru — Kamala Harris, the Democratic senator from California, recently raised eyebrows when she asked Ronald Vitiello, President Trump’s nominee to lead Immigration and Customs Enforcement, whether he appreciated the “perception” that ICE spreads “fear and intimidation” among immigrants the way the Ku Klux Klan did among blacks.

Harris carefully worded her question around the “perception” of ICE — and it was raised in part because Vitiello had once shamefully tweeted that Democrats were “the NeoKlanist party.” Nevertheless, with Harris a likely Democratic presidential candidate in 2020, Republican media pounced on her with variations of: “Hey voters, get this: Democrats think the ICE officers protecting you from illegal immigrants are like the K.K.K. You gonna vote for that?”

ICE does seem to have a bad culture, but it is not the K.K.K. At the same time, I don’t think the Democratic Party is just for open borders. Alas, though, I’m also not sure what exactly is the party’s standard on immigration — and questions like Harris’s leave it open to demonization.

Since Republicans have completely caved to Trump’s craven exploitation of immigration as a wedge issue, the country, as usual, needs the Democrats to be the adults and put forward a realistic, comprehensive approach to immigration, which now requires two parts.

The first is a way to think about the border and the second is a way to think about all the issues beyond the border — issues that are pushing migrants our way. You cannot think seriously about the first without thinking seriously about the second, and if you don’t, this week’s scenes of Customs and Border Protection officers firing tear gas to keep out desperate migrants near Tijuana will get a lot worse.

Regarding the border, the right place for Democrats to be is for a high wall with a big gate.

Democrats won’t do as well as they can nationally without assuring Americans that they’re committed to securing our borders; people can’t just walk in. But the country won’t do as well as it can in the 21st century unless it remains committed to a very generous legal immigration policy — and a realistic pathway to citizenship for illegals already here — to attract both high-energy, low-skilled workers and high-I.Q. risk takers.

They have been the renewable energy source of the American dream — and our secret advantage over China.

But thinking beyond the border is where Democrats can really distinguish themselves; it’s where Trump has been recklessly AWOL.

This is how we got to where we are today: During the 19th and 20th centuries, the world shifted from being governed by large empires in many regions to being governed by independent nation-states. And the 50 years after World War II were a great time to be a weak little nation-state.

Why? Because there were two superpowers competing for your affection by throwing foreign aid at you, building your army, buying your cheap goods and educating your college students; climate change was moderate; populations were still under control in the developing world; no one had a cellphone to easily organize movements against your government; and China was not in the World Trade Organization, so everyone could be in textiles and other low-wage industries.

All of that switched in the early 21st century: Climate-driven extreme weather — floods, droughts, heat and cold — on top of man-made deforestation began to hammer many countries, especially their small-scale farmers. This happened right as developing-world populations exploded. Africa went from 140 million in 1900 to one billion in 2010 to a projected 2.5 billion by 2050.

Syria grew from three million people in 1950 to over 22 million today, which, along with droughts, totally stressed its water resources. Guatemala, the main source of the migrant caravan heading our way, has been ravaged by deforestation thanks to illegal logging, farmers cutting trees for firewood and drug traffickers creating landing strips and smuggling trails.

A satellite map just released by University of Cincinnati geography researchers demonstrated that nearly a quarter of the earth’s habitable surface changed between just 1992 and 2015, primarily from forests to agriculture, from grasslands to deserts and from wetlands to urban concrete.

Meanwhile, the internet has enabled citizens to easily compare their living standards with those in Paris or Phoenix — and find a human trafficker to take them there. Also, China joined the W.T.O., dominating low-wage industries, and the end of the Cold War meant no superpower wanted to touch your country, because all it would win was a bill.

So it’s now much harder to be an average little country. The most frail of them are hemorrhaging people, like Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Sudan and most every nation in sub-Saharan Africa. Others — Venezuela, Syria, Afghanistan and Libya — have just fractured.

Together, they’re creating vast zones of disorder, and many people want to get out of them into any zone of order, particularly America or Europe, triggering nationalist-populist backlashes.

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But not only. I was in Argentina last month and am in Peru now; in both countries I found people worried about the refugee flows from Venezuela. Peru has taken in 600,000, and it’s beginning to stir resentment here among lower socio-economic classes.

The BBC reported in August: “Tens of thousands of Venezuelans are fleeing their country amid chronic shortages of food and medicines. The country’s longstanding economic crisis has seen more than two million citizens leave since 2014, causing regional tensions as neighboring countries struggle to accommodate them.”

The story added, “The UN — whose migration agency has warned that the continent faces a refugee ‘crisis moment’ similar to that seen in the Mediterranean in 2015 — is setting up a special team to co-ordinate the regional response. … More than half a million Venezuelans have crossed into Ecuador this year alone and more than a million have entered Colombia in the past 15 months.”

There are now more climate refugees, economic migrants searching for work and political refugees just searching for order than at any point since World War II, nearly 70 million people according to the International Rescue Committee, and 135 million more in need of humanitarian aid.

A responsible presidential candidate in 2020 needs a policy that rationally manages the flow of immigrants into our country and offers a strategy to help stabilize the world of disorder through climate change mitigation, birth control diffusion, reforestation, governance assistance and support for small-scale farmers.

This is our biggest geopolitical problem today. Forget the “Space Corps”; I’d make the “Peace Corps” our fifth service. We should have an Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps and Peace Corps, to send Americans to help stabilize small farms and governance in the world of disorder.

And this has to be a global project, with the U.S., Europe, India, Korea, China, Russia, Japan all contributing. Otherwise the world of order is going to be increasingly challenged by refugees from the world of disorder, and all rational discussions of immigration will go out the window.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/27/opin ... %2Fopinion

Ima dota interesantnih komentara,dosta ih spominje i narko ratove i uvoz teskih droga, tj. apetit koji ima Sj. Amerika za ovim drogama, i koliko je to devastiralo ove zemlje, pogotovo ove manje u C. Americi koje su potpuno pod kontrolom narko kartela.

[madner]

Ja govorim o dugorocnim trendovima, ti navijas. Radnicke plate imaju isti PPP kao prije 40 godina. Dok su u godinama iza ww2 svake godine rasle. I to vazi za Njemacku, kao i za USA. Razlog tome je deregulacija finacijskih tokova. Ulaganje u produktivnost nije isplativo.
Trump pravi poteze koji mjenja tu paradigmu, sto je pozitivna stvar.

Problem je samo sto se ne razgovara ozbiljno nego navijaci o tome. Da ima gresaka ima, ali to je ispravan pravac. Donald socijalsta

Taj clanak iznad je odlican.
Ilegalna migracija je jednostavno losa za gotovo sve. Stvara klasu ljudi koji nemaju prava, i koje su zrtve izrabljivanja (to sto im je bolje nego odakle dolaze ne znaci da je dobro). Obara cijenu rada. Osiromasuje druga drustva za ambiciozne radine ljude.
Da nema iligalne migracije, bilo bi legalne za nize placene poslove ali bi ti ljudi bili zasticeni i u sistemu.

[jeza u ledja]

Trump pravi poteze koji su ekvivalent Homer Simpsonovom stiskanju gumbica u kontrolnoj sobi. Ono, otvorenim dlanom po 10 gumba odjednom. A vecinu toga uradi onako kako mu kazu "savjetnici" koji su zbrda zdola sastavljeni u funkciji lobiranja za odredjene industrije. Isto vazi i za sve ostalo, pogotovo ukljucujuci spoljnu politiku.

Sto se tice imigracije, niko ne podrzava ilegalnu imigraciju. Trazenje azila nije ilegalna imigracija.

[jeza u ledja]

"One of the problems that a lot of people like myself, we have very high levels of intelligence, but we're not necessarily such believers," the president said of climate change. "You look at our air and our water and it's right now at a record clean."

[insomnia78]

Trump pravi poteze koji su ekvivalent Homer Simpsonovom stiskanju gumbica u kontrolnoj sobi. Ono, otvorenim dlanom po 10 gumba odjednom. A vecinu toga uradi onako kako mu kazu "savjetnici" koji su zbrda zdola sastavljeni u funkciji lobiranja za odredjene industrije. Isto vazi i za sve ostalo, pogotovo ukljucujuci spoljnu politiku.

Sto se tice imigracije, niko ne podrzava ilegalnu imigraciju. Trazenje azila nije ilegalna imigracija.

A kako se naziva to kad provalis preko granice?

[jeza u ledja]

Trump pravi poteze koji su ekvivalent Homer Simpsonovom stiskanju gumbica u kontrolnoj sobi. Ono, otvorenim dlanom po 10 gumba odjednom. A vecinu toga uradi onako kako mu kazu "savjetnici" koji su zbrda zdola sastavljeni u funkciji lobiranja za odredjene industrije. Isto vazi i za sve ostalo, pogotovo ukljucujuci spoljnu politiku.

Sto se tice imigracije, niko ne podrzava ilegalnu imigraciju. Trazenje azila nije ilegalna imigracija.

A kako se naziva to kad provalis preko granice?

Sta ti mislis?

[insomnia78]

Da nije ilegalna imigracija?

[jeza u ledja]

Bravo.
I sta si mudro htio da nam kazes?

[madner]

Pa nemas milione azilanata, nego ilegalnih migranata. Zid je ideja da se priliv takvih zaustavi, ne da USA ne pruza ugrozenim azil.

[jeza u ledja]

Velika vecina ljudi koji dolaze bez papira, a nisu incognito - dolaze sa namjerom da traze azil. Naravno, drukcije ih ne mogu legalno pustiti.

Oni koji se naprave pametni pa se pocnu verat po ogradi poslat nazad eskpresno.

Nema tu puno prostora za nedoumice.

Zid nije "ideja". Zid je stvarnost, on postoji u raznim oblicima na barem pola granice sa Meksikom. Zid i raznorazne druge barijere pogotovo postoje na najprometnijim granicnim prijelazima tipa ovaj San Diego-Tijuana ili Laredo-Juarez. O zidu kao ideji pricaju samo oni koji ne poznaju granicu, tipa Trump.

[madner]

Za mjesec dana ufate vise ilegalnih pokusaja prelaska nego sto godisnje dobiju zahtjeva za azil.

Zid je i ideja. Inace jeste smanjio i ovaj manji broj ulazaka, ali gradnja je zaustavljenja 2010.

Inace broj ilegalnih se mjeri desetinama miliona, to su ljudi koji su bukvalno gradjana drugog reda.

[jeza u ledja]

Vecina ilegalnih imigranata su usli legalno. Vecina ilegalnih ulazaka je kroz granicne prijelaze krijumcarenjem ili drugim metodama laziranja dokumenata, te prijelazima preko upravo tih zidova i barijera. Vecina ilegalnih ulazaka se ne desava tamo gdje zidova i barijera nema.

Zid vec postoji, u raznim oblicima. Na drugim mjestima je ograda. Negdje je zid visi, negdje je zid deblji. Negdje je proziran, negdje nije. Negdje ima zicana ograda, negdje imaju kamere. Uvijek se moze nadogradjivati, tehnika mijenjati, kao sto ce i uvijek ilegalci naci nacina da ga predju. Negdje zid uopste ne postoji. Znaci nema nista, ali imaju prirodne barijere koje je jako tesko preci. Negdje pak ne postoji nista i cak i ljudi prelaze ko s poslom, ali se samo zadrze u pogranicnom podrucju par stotina metara unutar.
Svugdje na Jugu uz granicu imas check points na cestama desetinama milja unutar zemlje.

Ideja da se sa "zidom" mogu zaustaviti ilegalni ulasci u zemlju je banalisanje vrlo kompleksnog problema. Zid kao zid se vrlo lako moze preci, nebitno je li 5 ili 10 metara visok. Razne druge barijere takodje. To je ravno pravljenju srednjovjekovne tvrdjave protiv cyber napada. Svako sa imalo mozga i poznavanja situacije je to jasno.

No kada se prica o trazenju azila, ne prica se o necemu ilegalnom, no to se uporno presucuje. Diskusija nije za ili protiv ilegalne imigracije, vec imigracije uopste.

Posto je insomnia htio da potvrdim da li je preskakanje zida ilegalno, red bi bio da sad potvrdi da li je dolazak na granicu i trazenje azila ilegalno?

[insomnia78]

I sta sad njih milion bahne. Evo mi dosli, daj azil?

[jeza u ledja]

Ja tebe pitam - je li legalno doci i traziti azil? Ako jeste, zasto se o tim ljudima prica kao ilegalnim imigrantima?

[insomnia78]

[jeza u ledja]

Je li legalno doci na granicu i traziti azil?

[insomnia78]

Nema pojma. Nisam nikad. Valjda jeste

[jeza u ledja]

Nisi nikad imao pojma? Hajd dobro ko prizna pola mu se prasta.

Ako je problem u broju ljudi, na kojem broju bi ti stao?

[Ima Bosne_Bice Bosne]

Jasta ce. Zbog takvih prica i dolaze

Dolaze zbog prica da ce vjerovatno biti bijeda i za godinu dana?

Jbga, meni dobro jednom rekao jedan Mexo, "Biti bijeda ovdje, u USA, i biti bijeda juzno od USA nije isto".

Hocu reci, svi ovi sto zele preci granicu iz Mexica bi rado da budu USA bijeda.

[jeza u ledja]

Samo sam to spominjao u kontekstu nategnute usporedbe sa zrtvama pozara u Californiji. Nisam mislio da ce vecina tih 99% u Tijuani uopste biti u Americi za godinu dana.