Ukrajina

User avatar
Optimus09
Posts: 3717
Joined: 27/11/2017 06:48
Location: Berlin

#115026 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Optimus09 »

DaysleepeR wrote: 13/09/2022 13:54
Optimus09 wrote: 13/09/2022 11:47 Prepustice USA Rusima Krim,mozda Lugansk i Donjeck dobiju neku vrstu autonomije.Nece dozvoliti da ih Ukrajinci popisaju do kraja.
Jedino što će Rusi na kraju dobiti je eventualno neka vrsta pro-ruske samouprave na tim teritorijama, u smislu ruskog jezia u školi i ostalih pro-forme alata zaštite lokalnog stanovništva, zauzvrat da se vojka povuče i teritorije integrišu nazad u Ukrajinu.

To je sve čemu se Rusija može nadati u pregovorima.
Europa bi Ukrajinu ostavila na cjedilu i bez teritorije radi jeftinijih energenata,sreca zna se ko je glavni.
Rusija ja gotova,sumnjam da ce se raspasti,niti poslije Putina tesko da ce doci demokratija.
Ali na svjetskoj sceni se nece vise pitati skoro nista.
lajkujMe
Posts: 12937
Joined: 06/04/2011 17:44
Location: Na svom mocnom racunaru

#115027 Re: Ukrajina

Post by lajkujMe »

👀



Salim se nevjerujem je ista nema uopste nagovjestaja ta bilo kakvu akciju :D

Kazem jutros suhovina na socijalnim mrezama.
Proso Kharkiv back to old gdje ovdje jedni druge nadmudrujemo hoce li Rusi baciti atomsku :D
User avatar
Nespin
Posts: 1887
Joined: 26/03/2019 19:02

#115028 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Nespin »

512MB wrote: 13/09/2022 11:59 Oho vam se NATO

https://youtube.com/shorts/NjPP3DgG5UY?feature=share
Sreća pa niko nije pokušao od nas napraviti Čečene...

https://radiosarajevo.ba/vijesti/bosna- ... adi/432615
zigzag
Posts: 9381
Joined: 18/04/2014 11:26

#115029 Re: Ukrajina

Post by zigzag »

lajkujMe wrote: 13/09/2022 14:05 👀



Salim se nevjerujem je ista nema uopste nagovjestaja ta bilo kakvu akciju :D

Kazem jutros suhovina na socijalnim mrezama.
Proso Kharkiv back to old gdje ovdje jedni druge nadmudrujemo hoce li Rusi baciti atomsku :D
Svaki dan u kojem rusijani ostanu u nekom rovu u ukrajini je njima dodatna patnja. A izloženi su i granatama i dronovima. Svaki dan ginu u tuđoj zemlji.

Čak i da nema ofanzivnih dejstava ukrajinaca, rusima curi vrijeme.
sumirprimus
Posts: 88884
Joined: 10/02/2010 07:54
Location: Bunker :D Saj ops

#115030 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

lajkujMe wrote: 13/09/2022 14:05 👀



Salim se nevjerujem je ista nema uopste nagovjestaja ta bilo kakvu akciju :D

Kazem jutros suhovina na socijalnim mrezama.
Proso Kharkiv back to old gdje ovdje jedni druge nadmudrujemo hoce li Rusi baciti atomsku :D
TISINA JE NEKAD glasnija i od najvece buke...
kazu glasno šute nije dzaba..
Samprotivsviju
Posts: 7046
Joined: 03/12/2011 13:10

#115031 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Samprotivsviju »

Ma goni ga, ja bi presao granicu i zauzeo regiju Centralne rusije, zatim sproveo "anketu" i proglasio je Nezavisnom republikom Centralne Rusije.
mishic
Posts: 8301
Joined: 28/04/2011 16:29

#115032 Re: Ukrajina

Post by mishic »

Prepusti li se Rusima bilo što što su silom poklopili ponovit će se dejtonska greška i time u startu stimulirati brojni drugi pokušaji da se silom, agresijom, okupacijom, zločinima, ratom i genocidom ostvare brojne nacionalističke težnje i to ne samo na prostorima bivšeg SSSR-a nego i diljem Evrope pa i šire. Neophodno je zauzeti principijelan stav i na slučaju Rusije i Ukrajine jasno poručiti svim budućim agresijama i agresorima da se agresija neće i ne smije nagrađivati isto kao što se ratne reparacije (ratna šteta) nikome ne smije opraštati.

Ova principijelnost bila bi veliki ulog za budučnost i očuvanje mira diljem svijeta a njeno novo proigravanje imalo bi strašne posljedice slične onim Dejtonskim ali ovaj put one bi bile i teže.

Jasno je da Makron ali i drugi pohlepni EU lideri mogu insistirati na novoj dejtonizaciji ovoga slučaja ili da će Putko upregnuti Lukašenka, Orbana, Kadirova, Vučića, Dodika i druge podrepaše da mu pomažu u tome ali ako se ponovo iznevjere ovi principi to će inicirati seriju novih sukoba, ratova i agresija.
statixx
Posts: 9732
Joined: 15/12/2011 14:40
Location: Sarajevo

#115033 Re: Ukrajina

Post by statixx »

Navodno Ukrajinci pogodili aerodrom u Melitopolu.
lajkujMe
Posts: 12937
Joined: 06/04/2011 17:44
Location: Na svom mocnom racunaru

#115034 Re: Ukrajina

Post by lajkujMe »



Pontoni
lajkujMe
Posts: 12937
Joined: 06/04/2011 17:44
Location: Na svom mocnom racunaru

#115035 Re: Ukrajina

Post by lajkujMe »



:izet:
sumirprimus
Posts: 88884
Joined: 10/02/2010 07:54
Location: Bunker :D Saj ops

#115036 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

lajkujMe
Posts: 12937
Joined: 06/04/2011 17:44
Location: Na svom mocnom racunaru

#115037 Re: Ukrajina

Post by lajkujMe »

Kherson update, ne znam odakle ovom liku info za ovo dole ko da je mir i blagostanje koliko se malo izvjestava




U biti Rusi kontra na Ternovy pody i na Bezimene
User avatar
madner
Posts: 57524
Joined: 09/08/2004 16:35

#115038 Re: Ukrajina

Post by madner »

pici wrote: 13/09/2022 09:47
madner wrote: 13/09/2022 09:28

Jeste inace, no u ruskoj nomekluturi CAA se sastoji od divizija ili brigada i brojcano odgovara korpusu NATO snaga.
To se vremenom mijenja, operativna struktura, recimo kod nas si imao 6 korpusa u jednoj armiji u WW2 kad su vise milionske armije, to se podjeli u operativnu grupu armije A,B,C,D,E itd.Nijemci su volili te operativne grupe armija prema istoku.Grupa armija sjever, jug, centar.Danas je to razlozeno na bataljonske i brigadne grupe i uglavnom operativno u diviziju ili korpus se stavi, zavisno od vremena i mjesta borbi i potreba za komandovanjem na razini centralizacije vise brigada u kurpus a ne u divizije pa u korpus, grupe armija nema potrebe radi brzeg odlucivanja u glavnoj komandi.
Manje vise je fiksno. Mi nismo imale armij(e), nasa najveca formacija je bila korpus. Posto nismo imali spojene linije, nije ni bilo previse smisla vise korpusa stavljati pod jednu komandu, osim mozda na kraju u Krajini kada su 5. i 7. stvarno imali jednu zajednicku operaciju.

Armija oko 300 000 ljudi, armijska grupa oko 1.5 miliona.

Danas su vojske manje, a ustroj u BTG se pokazao kao pogresan i siguran sam da ce Rusi nakon ovog debakla odustati od istih.

Nivo se ubacuje kada jedan covjek mora komandovati se previse drugih ljudi. Armija ako ima 17 divizija, to je previse za komadanta ako nema korpusa itd...
sumirprimus
Posts: 88884
Joined: 10/02/2010 07:54
Location: Bunker :D Saj ops

#115039 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

statixx
Posts: 9732
Joined: 15/12/2011 14:40
Location: Sarajevo

#115040 Re: Ukrajina

Post by statixx »

lajkujMe wrote: 13/09/2022 14:27

Pontoni
Opet ce da radi HIMARS U Hersonu. :D
sumirprimus
Posts: 88884
Joined: 10/02/2010 07:54
Location: Bunker :D Saj ops

#115041 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

odradi zeleni putlera ko sansku kozu hehe :D
glumac vaki naki, a na kraju glumac odradi poso pogotovu pr i hajc za ukre, naspram oldskul kgb skole koja se pokaza samo ko surova i nista vise...
ruska vojska je ovakva kakva je , klosarska jer im je i drzava klosarska lopvska, vise su vremena i para trosili trujuci druge i sijuci zlo po regionu i svijetu nego stvarajuci uvjete za sebe i svoj narod. i na kraju sve sto su posijali a posijali su mnogo zla po cijelom svijetu zasluzeno zanju i tek ce poznjet.
i oni i komplet taj ruski svet sa satelitima. nadam se haha :bih:
User avatar
Optimus09
Posts: 3717
Joined: 27/11/2017 06:48
Location: Berlin

#115042 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Optimus09 »

Negdje sam procitao da je Zelenski po struci pravnik,nije on "zelen" :-D
User avatar
Gandalf
Posts: 11137
Joined: 02/06/2008 23:52
Location: ...........................

#115043 Re: Ukrajina

Post by Gandalf »

Hajde dragi ukrajinci, Himarišite te budaletine, vratite ih u gulag iz kojeg ih je pokupilo
User avatar
tramvajtrojka
Posts: 16873
Joined: 27/04/2021 22:52

#115044 Re: Ukrajina

Post by tramvajtrojka »

Image
Image

crven1 24 su34 jos jedan oboren u harkivskoj oblasti :thumbup:
User avatar
vee-jay
Posts: 9672
Joined: 22/06/2004 20:50
Location: --- nisam vise ovdje ---

#115045 Re: Ukrajina

Post by vee-jay »

A Klix postavlja rusku propagandu:

https://www.klix.ba/vijesti/svijet/rusk ... /220913063

za citav dan povracati

ali barem dobar PR za HR :D
User avatar
drug_profi
Posts: 64675
Joined: 16/07/2012 16:00

#115046 Re: Ukrajina

Post by drug_profi »

Jel bilo?
Zaostajem....jbg
sumirprimus
Posts: 88884
Joined: 10/02/2010 07:54
Location: Bunker :D Saj ops

#115047 Re: Ukrajina

Post by sumirprimus »

What Happens to Russia After It Loses?
EMPTY EMPIRE
In the aftermath of Putin’s catastrophic war on Ukraine, Russia will never be the same.


David Rothkopf
Published Sep. 13, 2022 4:19AM ET

With reports of Russian troops fleeing like “Olympic sprinters,” leaving behind weapons, crashing their tanks into trees, and turning over more than 3,000 square kilometers of previously held territory to Ukraine, it is only natural to ask: How bad can it get for Russia?
Spoiler
Show
Ukraine’s President Volodymyr Zelenskyy offered stirring video remarks this weekend that doubled down on his commitment to defeat the invaders completely, to push them out of the borders of Ukraine.
We can’t know whether that goal will be achieved, or if it is how long it will take. But what we can see, yet again, is that Vladimir Putin’s decision to launch a broader invasion of Ukraine last February was a devastating miscalculation.
Experts with whom I spoke all agreed that the war will have long-lasting implications for Russia and, as a consequence, for geopolitics. At the very least it puts to rest for the foreseeable future Putin’s notion that he will oversee the rebirth of Russian greatness, of a new Russian empire. At worst, it means that Russia’s decades-long slide that led to its Cold War collapse (and its struggles ever since) will be accelerated, and the country will be consigned by its floundering dictator to a period of greatly diminished global influence.

Former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Ivo Daalder described the stakes trenchantly: “Russia ceased being a great power a long time ago. It never really recovered from the collapse of the Soviet Union, itself the product of a decaying ideology and system.” Daalder said Putin came to power when “Russia was in a state of deep dysfunction” and that he subsequently “set out to build a deeply kleptocratic system that benefited him and his cronies at the expense of the entire society.” This, according to Daalder, has manifested itself with “a military that is unable to engage in modern warfare of maneuver, which after six months still hasn’t established air superiority.”
Daalder added: “John McCain once called Russia ‘a gas station with nuclear weapons.’ As sanctions start to impact its ability to produce oil and gas, it isn’t even clear if Russia will be a gas station for long.”

Russia is still the largest country in the world, with more nuclear weapons than anyone. And yet, remarkably, despite all that, Putin’s disaster in Ukraine may well leave Russia as little more than a dangerous middleweight power—Belgium with an attitude.

Stephen Sestanovich, who served during the Clinton administration as ambassador at large for the newly independent states of the former USSR and is currently a professor at Columbia University, offered a different analogy to a second-tier European state, “Russia’s claim to be a great power has long been tenuous, resting on nukes, land mass, and a UN veto. The revival of economic growth in Putin’s first decade helped restore a little luster to the claim. But he’s been largely on the ropes since 2014, and this absurd campaign to ‘de-Nazify’ Ukraine has put his entire effort at risk. He wanted to make himself an equal of Catherine and Peter. Now it’s going to take quite a comeback to be more than [former Serbian President Slobodan] Milošević with missiles.”
Angela Stent, a Putin biographer and senior adviser at the Georgetown School of Foreign Service’s Center for Eurasian, Russian, and East European Studies, echoed that analysis, “After the war is over, Russia will still be the largest country in the world (assuming it does not disintegrate) and it will still have nukes, oil, and gas. But it is deglobalizing and returning to greater autarky.” Stent says that despite maintaining strong ties with many countries in the global south, “its relations with the collective West, which represents the lion’s share of global GDP, have largely collapsed.” Stent adds: “Putin came to power wanting to restore Russia’s role as a great power and have a seat on the global board of directors. He has now lost that. Russia will emerge from this demodernized and diminished in global stature.”

Stent however, offers an important caveat, noting that despite the damage Putin and his incompetent generals and his coterie of yes-men advisers have done, Russia will still “have the ability to act as a spoiler against Western interests.”

Putin and Russia have been actively trying to send a message that they are still a force to be reckoned with.
While Putin’s visit to inaugurate a ferris wheel that almost immediately broke down did not accomplish this, his trip this week to the “Shanghai Summit” meeting in Uzbekistan where he will meet with regional allies (most notably, China) is intended to send a more effective message in this regard.

China and Russia will almost certainly make a show of pledges to work closely together, thus helping Putin communicate that he is still someone to be reckoned with. At least in theory.

China has been reluctant to provide direct military aid to support Russia’s Ukraine invasion, and from time to time it has appeared quite uncomfortable with having a “best friend” that also regularly seems committed to demonstrating its incompetence. Differing Russian and Chinese statements in the run up to this week’s summit further underscore that.

Hal Brands, the Henry A. Kissinger Professor of Global Affairs at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies, warns nonetheless that it would be “a mistake to write off a country that spans ten time zones, has thousands of nuclear weapons, retains some powerful conventional forces, and has infinite capacity to make trouble as a great-power. Russia has traditionally proven far more resilient than many analysts imagine—it came back after the complete catastrophe following the end of the Cold War, after all, even if Putin is jeopardizing much of that today.”
However, Brands concedes that “this is actually kind of normal for Russia—it is a great power that has never been as great as it thinks it is. So it constantly tries to punch above its weight in international affairs (by waging a Cold War against the entire Western world, for instance). That leads to failure, which leads to dramatic contractions of Russian power and influence, which leads, after a time, to a period of resurgence anew. Russia will be down for a while if things keep going in this direction—but don't count it out.”

Jill Dougherty, who also teaches at Georgetown’s School of Foreign Service and is a global fellow at the Wilson Center’s Kennan Institute, observes that Russia’s deepening decline could trigger dangerous instability both for Putin and for the world. “At home in Russia, ominously, prices for goods are rising and, although most Russians support the war, there are small but significant signs of domestic frustration and even criticism of Putin himself. Massive brain drain is siphoning off Russia's best and brightest high-tech specialists.

“The prospect of defeat in Ukraine,” she continues, “Carries potentially grave threats to Vladimir Putin's rule. The closer he comes to losing, the more desperate he may grow, with little to stop him from striking out in savage retribution. The possible use of tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine cannot be ruled out. The Kremlin can try to redefine ‘victory’ and ‘defeat,’ but someone will have to be blamed and, already, Putin is denouncing his internal ‘enemies’ and ‘Fifth Column traitors,’ leaving Russia an angry, resentful, and isolated country.”
The former commander of the U.S. Army in Europe, General Mark Hertling (retired), notes that some countries were able to rebound fairly quickly from the damage done by fallen leaders as Saddam Hussein, Nicolae Ceausescu, and Adolf Hitler. But, Gen. Hertling says, “Russia is different.”

Hertling continues: “Russia’s aristocracy might replace Putin, but would it be with a leader who can help the Russian culture rebound from over a century of oppression, secrets, wars, kleptocracy, class division, and really poor leadership that has seeped into every element of the society? Especially their security force and intelligence community. A desire to execute a positive transformation of a military into an effective 21st century fighting force after a disastrous defeat like what has occurred in Ukraine will be extremely difficult. You can’t begin to change the way an army fights if the political leadership it represents is dysfunctional, because effective armies represent the values of a nation it defends.”

Specifically, he accurately notes, Russia’s “military failed because of corruption, grift, poor equipment, failure to follow a doctrine that was disconnected from capability or training, a lack of both individual and team preparation for the demands of the modern battlefield... but most of all, extremely poor leadership at all levels. But here’s the most important lesson: you can’t fix any of that, within any period of time or with any amount of money, as long as the government the military serves is dysfunctional and corrupt.”
For these reasons, the prognosis for Russia’s future is, in the eyes of every expert with whom I spoke, dark and getting darker all the time.

As Tom Nichols, a former Naval War College professor, Russia specialist, and current contributor to The Atlantic, concludes: “No matter how this war ends, post-Soviet Russia as a great power is finished for a long time to come. Putin unwound 30 years of social and economic development, somehow thinking he could sustain great power status on wars of aggression, selling natural resources, and keeping a nuclear arsenal. (Great powers do not have to go shopping for weapons in North Korea.) Even if Putin dies or is removed, the moral stain of the Ukraine war and its many crimes is going to last for generations, and a post-Putin Russia will not get the same benefit of the doubt from the rest of the world the way it did after the Soviet collapse. He's going to leave the country poorer, more hated, and more isolated than at any time since Stalin’s death.”
There is an irony in this. Putin avoided the funeral of Mikhail Gorbachev because he considered the fall of the Soviet Union and the dissolution of its empire as the worst catastrophe of the past century. Yet, here he is compounding the missteps and the crimes that led to that event.

Indeed, the best case for post-Soviet Russia may well be that it becomes relative to China what the former members of the Warsaw Pact were to it, a satellite of a much greater power, at best the junior partner in a relationship with the one like-minded nation that has a chance to gain greater influence in the decades ahead.

For countries like Ukraine—fighting for their continued existence—all of this is secondary, of course. What matters is that they are able to continue their recent victories, that the West provides them with the equipment and financial resources to be able to capitalize on those successes and that in the end they fulfill the promise of Zelensky’s speech and push the invader out of their country. Should they do that, they will be doing the world a great service. And fortunately, they are aided in this not only by the commitments of leaders like President Joe Biden and his counterparts in NATO and the EU, but by the mind-boggling ineptitude of Putin and his army.
As one Ukrainian soldier put it, “We are very lucky that they are so fucking stupid.”
mishic
Posts: 8301
Joined: 28/04/2011 16:29

#115048 Re: Ukrajina

Post by mishic »

DaysleepeR wrote: 13/09/2022 13:54
Optimus09 wrote: 13/09/2022 11:47 Prepustice USA Rusima Krim,mozda Lugansk i Donjeck dobiju neku vrstu autonomije.Nece dozvoliti da ih Ukrajinci popisaju do kraja.
Jedino što će Rusi na kraju dobiti je eventualno neka vrsta pro-ruske samouprave na tim teritorijama, u smislu ruskog jezia u školi i ostalih pro-forme alata zaštite lokalnog stanovništva, zauzvrat da se vojka povuče i teritorije integrišu nazad u Ukrajinu.

To je sve čemu se Rusija može nadati u pregovorima.
Bilo kakav ustupak Rusiji i ruskom stanovništvu u Ukrajini iznuđen agresijom predstavljao bi veliku grešku sa zastrašujućim posljedicama. To bi bilo ponavljanje Dejtonskih grešaka, produbljavanje nacionalizma, miješanja susjeda u unutarnje stvari Ukrajine, produžavanje antagonizama i prijetnji od novih sukoba i stvaranje trajne neuralgične tačke do izbijanja novih sukoba. I Ukrajine boluje od korupcije, to mora liječiti, društvo se mora demokratizirati i unutar te demokratizacije tražiti rješenja da se narodi koji žive u Ukrajini integriraju u društvo i osječaju sigurno i zaštićeno.

Dejtonske nebuloze i budalaštine postale su svakome razumnom potpuno jasna lekcija. Takva "rješenja" postanu trajan i nerješiv problem koji s godinama narasta i jedini izlaz je u novom komfliktu ili nekom s polja nametnutom rješenju do koga se onda teško dolazi.
lajkujMe
Posts: 12937
Joined: 06/04/2011 17:44
Location: Na svom mocnom racunaru

#115049 Re: Ukrajina

Post by lajkujMe »

Zelenski je zavrsio pravni fakultet ali nikada nije zaganjao tu karijeru.
Okrenuo se glumi i komediji.
Dosao na mjesto predsjednika bez predhodnog iskustva u politici.
I odlicno obavlja posao :thumbup:

Ima jedan Americki Predsjednik koji dan danas slovi za jednog od najboljih ikada ali je u politiku usao kroz Hollywood :D
Da mislim na Ronald Regana, doduse za razliku od Zelenskog on je poceo od malih nivoa.
Ono guverner pa senator pa onda predsjednik
lajkujMe
Posts: 12937
Joined: 06/04/2011 17:44
Location: Na svom mocnom racunaru

#115050 Re: Ukrajina

Post by lajkujMe »

madner wrote: 13/09/2022 14:34
pici wrote: 13/09/2022 09:47

To se vremenom mijenja, operativna struktura, recimo kod nas si imao 6 korpusa u jednoj armiji u WW2 kad su vise milionske armije, to se podjeli u operativnu grupu armije A,B,C,D,E itd.Nijemci su volili te operativne grupe armija prema istoku.Grupa armija sjever, jug, centar.Danas je to razlozeno na bataljonske i brigadne grupe i uglavnom operativno u diviziju ili korpus se stavi, zavisno od vremena i mjesta borbi i potreba za komandovanjem na razini centralizacije vise brigada u kurpus a ne u divizije pa u korpus, grupe armija nema potrebe radi brzeg odlucivanja u glavnoj komandi.
Manje vise je fiksno. Mi nismo imale armij(e), nasa najveca formacija je bila korpus. Posto nismo imali spojene linije, nije ni bilo previse smisla vise korpusa stavljati pod jednu komandu, osim mozda na kraju u Krajini kada su 5. i 7. stvarno imali jednu zajednicku operaciju.

Armija oko 300 000 ljudi, armijska grupa oko 1.5 miliona.

Danas su vojske manje, a ustroj u BTG se pokazao kao pogresan i siguran sam da ce Rusi nakon ovog debakla odustati od istih.

Nivo se ubacuje kada jedan covjek mora komandovati se previse drugih ljudi. Armija ako ima 17 divizija, to je previse za komadanta ako nema korpusa itd...
Madner, po tvom misljenju tj misljenju zapadne vojne nauke.
Koja je najbolja organizacija vojski danas?
Post Reply