Obama i SAD (2008-2016)
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50484
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1127
Izgleda da neki ljudi ne shvataju jednu stvar - u Americi je 'rasna karta' tabu tema. Ne samo u javnim medijima nego i u glavama velike vecine ljudi, prvenstveno mislim na bijelce. Mnogi bijelci ce glasati za Obamu upravo zato sto je crnac, ne samo zato sto je to cool, vec zato sto su duboko iskompleksirani svojom prosloscu i political correctness koju ih uce od malih nogu. Upravo ce se zapitati u sebi - 'ako ja ne glasam za Obamu da li to znaci da sam ja rasista?'. Vrlo malo bijelaca, u stvari gotovo niko, nece ne otvoreno, nego uopste sebi priznati da je 'rasista'. A najbolji dokaz toga samima sebi bice to - da Obamu zaokruze na glasackom listicu.hik--meta wrote:pusti ti analize "eksperata". bottom line je da je huso 'dead man walking' ako dobije demokratsku nominaciju, a ako ga ne smaknu fizicki (a pokusat ce neko sigurno, dal prikriveno institucionalno kao toboznji engine failure ili na divlji madman assasin fazon, svejedno) republikanci ce zaigrati na kartu rase, pa ce to samo destabilizirati stvari. ko zna sta su sve u stanju uraditi samo da ostanu na vlasti?
ja ne bih da se to sve desi unutar ove zemlje u ovakvoj nestabilnoj ekonomskoj situaciji, pa zato idem linijom manjeg otpora, a i zbog stavova klintonovih prema balkanu.
- repeater
- Posts: 1634
- Joined: 04/07/2005 04:59
- Location: Yoknapatawpha County
- Contact:
#1128
zamisli zizeka na cnn-u kako komentira rezultate izbora.jeza u ledja wrote: Mnogi bijelci ce glasati za Obamu upravo zato sto je crnac, ne samo zato sto je to cool, vec zato sto su duboko iskompleksirani svojom prosloscu i political correctness koju ih uce od malih nogu. Upravo ce se zapitati u sebi - 'ako ja ne glasam za Obamu da li to znaci da sam ja rasista?'. Vrlo malo bijelaca, u stvari gotovo niko, nece ne otvoreno, nego uopste sebi priznati da je 'rasista'. A najbolji dokaz toga samima sebi bice to - da Obamu zaokruze na glasackom listicu.
daily show bi ovu ideju oberucke prihvatio.
- karabaja-x
- Posts: 2051
- Joined: 02/02/2007 04:54
- Location: mangala mangala (ako ste a big fish in a small pond, morate adoptirat a low key profile)
#1129
sta napadate spitzera, ko da je ubio nekog jebote, cojk je samo dao svoj doprinos stimulaciji ekonomije
....sve bi se to trebalo legalizovat a ove detektive i agente umjesto da ganjaju kockare i kurvaluke zaposlit da hvataju lopove, evropa je mnogo naprednija u ovom pogledu
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AenemA
- Posts: 423
- Joined: 23/04/2004 04:32
#1130
Citam nekoliko clanaka ( http://www.draftgore.com/free_details.asp?id=81 ) gdje se spominje Al Gore opet, kao ako ovo dvoje (Billary i Huso) nastave razjebavati demokratsku partiju da bi se na kraju nominacija mogla dati Gore-u, ukoliko ga nagovore, mada cisto sumnjam.
Hillary ako dobije nominaciju, sigurno McCain pobjedjuje, i opet pusiona...
Hillary ako dobije nominaciju, sigurno McCain pobjedjuje, i opet pusiona...
- hik--meta
- Posts: 349
- Joined: 19/02/2008 16:29
#1131
sa cnn-a:
sta kazu ovdje moje komsije, nedaj boze da pobijedi obama, digli bi se na oruzje kao 1861, pa sta bude nek bude.
pa kad kazu da rasa ne igra ulogu... ovdje u atlanti su sami crnci izasli na primaries, a kad i bijelci izadju u novembru, huso nema sanse.Mississippi Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines in Tuesday's primary, exit polls indicate.
As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.
But Mississippi white voters overwhelmingly backed the New York senator, supporting her over Obama 72 percent to 21 percent.
sta kazu ovdje moje komsije, nedaj boze da pobijedi obama, digli bi se na oruzje kao 1861, pa sta bude nek bude.
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jefferson
- Posts: 14969
- Joined: 28/08/2007 05:31
- Location: U.S.A
#1132
Al se to raja skupila u Topolinu pa brojala crnce koji idu na glasanjehik--meta wrote:sa cnn-a:pa kad kazu da rasa ne igra ulogu... ovdje u atlanti su sami crnci izasli na primaries, a kad i bijelci izadju u novembru, huso nema sanse.Mississippi Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines in Tuesday's primary, exit polls indicate.
As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.
But Mississippi white voters overwhelmingly backed the New York senator, supporting her over Obama 72 percent to 21 percent.
sta kazu ovdje moje komsije, nedaj boze da pobijedi obama, digli bi se na oruzje kao 1861, pa sta bude nek bude.
- Pasiflora
- Posts: 3838
- Joined: 30/03/2007 20:41
- Location: Bolje bi bilo da je malo dalje
#1133
Mislim da ovo ima smisla. Na (najjuznijem) jugu sam upoznala gdju Amerikaknku (koja nema bas nikakve veze sa Balkanom - osim kulturnih) i ona mi je rekla da ce emigrirati u Hrvatsku ako pobjedi Obama ili nedaj Boze Hilari. Doslovno tim rjecima, iako se radi o zeni od preko 70 god.hik--meta wrote:sa cnn-a:pa kad kazu da rasa ne igra ulogu... ovdje u atlanti su sami crnci izasli na primaries, a kad i bijelci izadju u novembru, huso nema sanse.Mississippi Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines in Tuesday's primary, exit polls indicate.
As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.
But Mississippi white voters overwhelmingly backed the New York senator, supporting her over Obama 72 percent to 21 percent.
sta kazu ovdje moje komsije, nedaj boze da pobijedi obama, digli bi se na oruzje kao 1861, pa sta bude nek bude.
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palermo
- Posts: 25308
- Joined: 23/07/2007 21:46
- Location: BiH
#1134
pa neko ih je brojao,a ti što su brojali kažu 90% crnaca glasalo za Obamu, a manje od trećine bijelaca za njega.Vijesti kažu, bogami......jefferson wrote:hik--meta wrote:sa cnn-a:pa kad kazu da rasa ne igra ulogu... ovdje u atlanti su sami crnci izasli na primaries, a kad i bijelci izadju u novembru, huso nema sanse.Mississippi Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines in Tuesday's primary, exit polls indicate.
As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.
But Mississippi white voters overwhelmingly backed the New York senator, supporting her over Obama 72 percent to 21 percent.
sta kazu ovdje moje komsije, nedaj boze da pobijedi obama, digli bi se na oruzje kao 1861, pa sta bude nek bude.
Al se to raja skupila u Topolinu pa brojala crnce koji idu na glasanje
- karabaja-x
- Posts: 2051
- Joined: 02/02/2007 04:54
- Location: mangala mangala (ako ste a big fish in a small pond, morate adoptirat a low key profile)
#1135
jeste cudni, pogotova ova hikmeta s ovim "fair and balanced" izvjestajima soccer mama i baba iz njenog ruralnog subdivisiona.....pa te juzne drzave demokrate gube ionako na glavnim izborima da je ne znam ko kandidat, znaci to sto pricate ne znaci nista.....a kad smo vec kod pitanja rase, kako obama pobijedi iowu i hrpu ostalih midwest drzava gdje nema puno crnaca....obama il hilari, nisam odusevljen ni jednim ni drugim
, al bolje i oni nego onaj pemzioner
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50484
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1136
Rasna podjela je jedino prisutna na dubokom Jugu. Kako drukcije objasniti da je Obama dobio u Iowi, Wyomingu, Alaski, Utahu, itd....sve drzave sa manje od 5% crnaca?hik--meta wrote:sa cnn-a:pa kad kazu da rasa ne igra ulogu... ovdje u atlanti su sami crnci izasli na primaries, a kad i bijelci izadju u novembru, huso nema sanse.Mississippi Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines in Tuesday's primary, exit polls indicate.
As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.
But Mississippi white voters overwhelmingly backed the New York senator, supporting her over Obama 72 percent to 21 percent.
sta kazu ovdje moje komsije, nedaj boze da pobijedi obama, digli bi se na oruzje kao 1861, pa sta bude nek bude.
Uzeo je Wyoming, uzeo je Mississippi, ma ovo je gotovo. Svi analiticari se sada slazu da je postalo ocigledno da ce Obama na kraju imati veci broj izabranih delegata, to je ukljucujuci i Floridu i Michigan. Jedini naci da Clintonova postane nominovana je ili da privoli superdelegate da glasaju protiv volje naroda, ili da se desi neko cudo sa Obamom, a la ovo sa Spitzerom, pa da svi glasaju za nju. Najbolje sto bi se moglo desiti pak je da Obama napravi iznenadjenje u aprilu i uzme Pennsylvaniju. To bi zacepilo usta svima u Clintonovom taboru.
Mislim da bi Obami bilo pametno sada da provede neko vrijeme u narednih 3-4 sedmice kampanjirajuci na Floridi i u Michiganu. Sljedeci zakazani prajmari (PA) je tek 22. aprila.
- pitt
- Posts: 27093
- Joined: 03/12/2002 00:00
- Location: Steelers Nation
#1137
za druga jezeka
:D:D
Obamaworld versus Hillaryland
Mar 6th 2008
From The Economist print edition
The contenders are battling over the soul of the Democratic Party

JOHN EDWARDS has been saying since 2004 that there are two Americas—the America of the rich and privileged and the America of the poor and put-upon. The results of March 4th proved that there are also two Democratic Parties.
A famous political distinction exists between “wine-track” and “beer-track” Democrats. Wine-track Democrats have traditionally supported reform-minded liberals such as Gary Hart and Paul Tsongas. Beer-track Democrats have preferred more practical-minded pols. Walter Mondale famously hammered the nail into Gary Hart's coffin when he stole a line from a hamburger advertisement and asked “Where's the beef?”
Part of Bill Clinton's genius was to bring the wine-drinkers and beer-drinkers together. This was, after all, a man who went to Yale and Oxford but who grew up the child of a widow in the backwoods of Arkansas. Yet this year's Democratic primaries have burst the party asunder once again.
Obamaworld is a universe of liberal professionals and young people—plus blacks from all economic segments. Hillaryland, by contrast, is a place of working-class voters, particularly working-class women, and the old. These are people who occupy not just different economies but also different cultures. How many white Obama voters eat in Cracker Barrel or Bob Evans? And how many Clinton voters have a taste for sushi?
These groups could hardly have a more different view of politics. Mr Obama's supporters are, mostly, the liberal version of “values voters”. They are intensely worried about America's past sins and its current woeful image in the world. They regard Mr Obama as a “transformational” leader—a man who can, with one sweep of his hand, wipe away the sins of the Bush years and summon up the best in their country.
Mrs Clinton's supporters, by contrast, are kitchen-table voters. They wear jackets emblazoned with the logos of their unions. They work with their hands or stand on their feet all day. They have seen their living standards stagnate for years, and they are worried about paying their bills rather than saving their political souls.
This helps to explain one of the biggest puzzles in the campaign—the fact that momentum is so fleeting. During Mr Obama's 11-state winning streak it looked as though he was eating into Mrs Clinton's core support in the white working class. He did reasonably well with that group in the Potomac states (Maryland and Virginia) and extraordinarily well with them in Wisconsin. He also secured endorsements from important unions. But Ohio has reversed that. White working-class voters are simply not quite comfortable with what Mr Obama is selling.
The battle for the Democratic Party is so bitter because it is a battle over culture. Mrs Clinton's supporters look at Mr Obama's and see latte-drinking elitists. Mr Obama's supporters look at Mrs Clinton's and smell all sorts of ancestral sins, not least racism. The two groups neither like nor respect each other.
There are actually good reasons for irritation on both sides. The Obamaites are not just otherworldly. They are also weirdly cultish. All the vague talk of “hope” and “change” is grating enough. But many Obamamaniacs want something even vaguer than this—they want political redemption.
It is certainly impressive to see 20,000 people queuing for hours to see a politician. But should they worship their man with such wide-eyed intensity? And should they shout “Yes we can” with such unbridled enthusiasm? The slogan, after all, reminds any parent of “Bob the Builder”, a cartoon for toddlers, and Mr Obama himself rejected it as naff when it was first suggested to him. His supporters are rather like high-school nerds who surround the coolest kid in the class in the hope of looking cool themselves.
But there are also good reasons to be irritated with Mrs Clinton's beer-track Democrats. Blue-collar workers have certainly had a hard time of it. The Cleveland rustbelt is a decaying monument to good jobs that have been shipped abroad or mechanised out of existence. But one of the tragedies of this campaign is that both Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton have decided to ignore Bill Clinton's message—that the only way that America can remain competitive is to prepare people for new jobs rather than cling on to old ones—and instead engage in a silly competition to see who can bash NAFTA hardest.
Brains, not brawn
The final reason why the battle between the rival supporters will tear the Democratic Party apart is that the balance of power within the party is shifting. Mrs Clinton's Democrats have dominated the party since Franklin Roosevelt's time. They have hired a few eggheads to do the maths. But they have never let them get the upper hand. And they have repeatedly seen off challenges by “new class” Democrats. This year's election is arguably their last stand.
Economic change is relentlessly shrinking their base: manufacturing jobs are in decline at a time when brain-working jobs are expanding. And Mr Obama has shifted an important proportion of the old Democratic alliance—black Americans—to his column. He is also bringing large numbers of college-educated young people into the party who have little in common with old-style Democrats. One of the ironies of the current campaign is that Mrs Clinton's chief strategist, Mark Penn, has been one of the loudest voices on the left arguing that the party's future lies with brain rather than brawn. He must now be fervently hoping that he is wrong.
The great challenge for the Democratic Party in November will be to put this coalition back together. But the bitter fight in the months to come will widen the already gaping divide. John McCain could not be better positioned to pick up the pieces.
Obamaworld versus Hillaryland
Mar 6th 2008
From The Economist print edition
The contenders are battling over the soul of the Democratic Party

JOHN EDWARDS has been saying since 2004 that there are two Americas—the America of the rich and privileged and the America of the poor and put-upon. The results of March 4th proved that there are also two Democratic Parties.
A famous political distinction exists between “wine-track” and “beer-track” Democrats. Wine-track Democrats have traditionally supported reform-minded liberals such as Gary Hart and Paul Tsongas. Beer-track Democrats have preferred more practical-minded pols. Walter Mondale famously hammered the nail into Gary Hart's coffin when he stole a line from a hamburger advertisement and asked “Where's the beef?”
Part of Bill Clinton's genius was to bring the wine-drinkers and beer-drinkers together. This was, after all, a man who went to Yale and Oxford but who grew up the child of a widow in the backwoods of Arkansas. Yet this year's Democratic primaries have burst the party asunder once again.
Obamaworld is a universe of liberal professionals and young people—plus blacks from all economic segments. Hillaryland, by contrast, is a place of working-class voters, particularly working-class women, and the old. These are people who occupy not just different economies but also different cultures. How many white Obama voters eat in Cracker Barrel or Bob Evans? And how many Clinton voters have a taste for sushi?
These groups could hardly have a more different view of politics. Mr Obama's supporters are, mostly, the liberal version of “values voters”. They are intensely worried about America's past sins and its current woeful image in the world. They regard Mr Obama as a “transformational” leader—a man who can, with one sweep of his hand, wipe away the sins of the Bush years and summon up the best in their country.
Mrs Clinton's supporters, by contrast, are kitchen-table voters. They wear jackets emblazoned with the logos of their unions. They work with their hands or stand on their feet all day. They have seen their living standards stagnate for years, and they are worried about paying their bills rather than saving their political souls.
This helps to explain one of the biggest puzzles in the campaign—the fact that momentum is so fleeting. During Mr Obama's 11-state winning streak it looked as though he was eating into Mrs Clinton's core support in the white working class. He did reasonably well with that group in the Potomac states (Maryland and Virginia) and extraordinarily well with them in Wisconsin. He also secured endorsements from important unions. But Ohio has reversed that. White working-class voters are simply not quite comfortable with what Mr Obama is selling.
The battle for the Democratic Party is so bitter because it is a battle over culture. Mrs Clinton's supporters look at Mr Obama's and see latte-drinking elitists. Mr Obama's supporters look at Mrs Clinton's and smell all sorts of ancestral sins, not least racism. The two groups neither like nor respect each other.
There are actually good reasons for irritation on both sides. The Obamaites are not just otherworldly. They are also weirdly cultish. All the vague talk of “hope” and “change” is grating enough. But many Obamamaniacs want something even vaguer than this—they want political redemption.
It is certainly impressive to see 20,000 people queuing for hours to see a politician. But should they worship their man with such wide-eyed intensity? And should they shout “Yes we can” with such unbridled enthusiasm? The slogan, after all, reminds any parent of “Bob the Builder”, a cartoon for toddlers, and Mr Obama himself rejected it as naff when it was first suggested to him. His supporters are rather like high-school nerds who surround the coolest kid in the class in the hope of looking cool themselves.
But there are also good reasons to be irritated with Mrs Clinton's beer-track Democrats. Blue-collar workers have certainly had a hard time of it. The Cleveland rustbelt is a decaying monument to good jobs that have been shipped abroad or mechanised out of existence. But one of the tragedies of this campaign is that both Mr Obama and Mrs Clinton have decided to ignore Bill Clinton's message—that the only way that America can remain competitive is to prepare people for new jobs rather than cling on to old ones—and instead engage in a silly competition to see who can bash NAFTA hardest.
Brains, not brawn
The final reason why the battle between the rival supporters will tear the Democratic Party apart is that the balance of power within the party is shifting. Mrs Clinton's Democrats have dominated the party since Franklin Roosevelt's time. They have hired a few eggheads to do the maths. But they have never let them get the upper hand. And they have repeatedly seen off challenges by “new class” Democrats. This year's election is arguably their last stand.
Economic change is relentlessly shrinking their base: manufacturing jobs are in decline at a time when brain-working jobs are expanding. And Mr Obama has shifted an important proportion of the old Democratic alliance—black Americans—to his column. He is also bringing large numbers of college-educated young people into the party who have little in common with old-style Democrats. One of the ironies of the current campaign is that Mrs Clinton's chief strategist, Mark Penn, has been one of the loudest voices on the left arguing that the party's future lies with brain rather than brawn. He must now be fervently hoping that he is wrong.
The great challenge for the Democratic Party in November will be to put this coalition back together. But the bitter fight in the months to come will widen the already gaping divide. John McCain could not be better positioned to pick up the pieces.
- pitt
- Posts: 27093
- Joined: 03/12/2002 00:00
- Location: Steelers Nation
#1138
The primaries
Never say die
Mar 6th 2008 | AUSTIN, TEXAS AND COLUMBUS, OHIO
From The Economist print edition
The voters in Texas and Ohio have upended the Democratic race yet again

THERE were two big winners in this week's Democratic primaries: Hillary Clinton, who returned from the political graveyard, and John McCain, who, having secured the Republican nomination, can now enjoy the spectacle of the two Democratic candidates at each other's throats for at least another six weeks.
On the morning of March 4th Mrs Clinton faced the end of her presidential dreams. No less a person than her husband had stated that she might have to think of pulling out of the race if she lost in Texas and Ohio. Two of the party's most influential grandees, Ed Rendell, the governor of Pennsylvania, and Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico, said much the same thing. Her campaign has had financial problems, is riven by infighting and was overclouded by gloom.
Mrs Clinton's three victories on Tuesday night—in Rhode Island, Ohio and Texas—changed all this. They ended Barack Obama's winning streak of 11 consecutive primaries and caucuses (12 if you count Vermont, which he won early on Tuesday evening). They applied a jolt of energy to the Clinton machine. And they forced a Democratic establishment, which was beginning to view Mr Obama as inevitable, to give Mrs Clinton another chance.
Mrs Clinton pulled off this resurrection by reassembling her core constituency of working-class whites, women, older voters and Latinos. Mr Obama had been steadily eating into these groups during his long winning spell. There was also lots of speculation that the Texas Latinos—who are younger—might behave differently from their Clintonian Californian cousins.
But the exit polls show that Mrs Clinton reforged her bond with these groups. She won women in both Ohio and Texas by 16 and nine points respectively. She won white men in Ohio by 19 points. She won Texas Latinos, who turned out in record numbers, by two to one. Her biggest margins came from people who have not been to university (ie working-class voters). She won these voters by 17 points in Texas and an astonishing 32 points in Ohio.
Mrs Clinton was clearly helped by her decision to mount a bare-knuckle assault on Mr Obama in the days before the election. She hammered him as not being prepared to be commander-in-chief (an advertisement showed a phone ringing in the White House at 3am and a poised Mrs Clinton answering it). She skewered him for talking out of both sides of his mouth on NAFTA (an Obama adviser seemingly assured the Canadians that he was not really threatening to tear up the trade deal).
She was also helped by a fit of guilt in the press corps. The Clinton campaign has been complaining for weeks that the press have treated Mr Obama with kid gloves. But what arguably gave the journalists the kick they needed was a skit on “Saturday Night Live” which skewered journalists for pandering to Mr Obama. The press pack turned on Mr Obama dramatically in the couple of days before the election—peppering him with questions about his position on NAFTA and his ties with Tony Rezko, a Chicago businessman (see article). Mr Obama responded with less than his normal aplomb, to put it mildly.
These twin assaults clearly had an impact. Mrs Clinton won decisively among people who made up their minds in the last moment (a fifth of Texans and of Ohioans). But Mrs Clinton's success in throwing the kitchen sink at Obama was abetted by worries about the kitchen table. The rapidly deteriorating economy is spreading gloom and anxiety across the land, playing to Mrs Clinton's strengths as a tried-and-tested manager and taking the wind out of Mr Obama's vague talk of “change” and “hope”. Half the voters in Texas and three-fifths in Ohio regarded the economy as the most important issue.
Mrs Clinton's assaults on Mr Obama were not very pretty—particularly her Nixonian assurance that her rival is not a Muslim “as far as I know”. But Mrs Clinton was also helped by her extraordinary indomitability in the face of adversity. The former first lady managed to march on despite chaos in her campaign and growing calls for her to withdraw from the race. The best line in her victory speech, in Columbus, Ohio, came when she used this indomitability to strike a chord with hard-pressed Americans: “For everyone here in Ohio and across America who's ever been counted out but refused to be knocked out, and for everyone who has stumbled but stood right back up, and for everyone who works hard and never gives up, this one's for you.”
The fighter still faces daunting odds. Mr Obama began March 4th with a lead of around 160 delegates. For all the headlines about her victories in Ohio and Texas, the Democratic Party's system of allocating votes proportionally means that she has done almost nothing to close her delegate gap. Mrs Clinton gained only about a net nine delegates from her ten-point win in Ohio. And thanks to Texas's bizarre “two-step” voting system, which allows primary voters to vote again in a Democratic caucus, she ended up securing only one or two more delegates than he did. Mr Obama won in the caucus, in which only about 100,000 people voted, versus 2.8m in the primary.
By some calculations she still needs to win more than 60% of the popular vote in the remaining contests to have a chance of catching up with Mr Obama—a near impossibility (she only won 54% in Ohio). Mr Obama is likely to resume his winning streak in the forthcoming contests in Wyoming on March 8th and is certain to do so in Mississippi on March 11th.
Texas and Ohio will not change the fact that Mrs Clinton has messed up what should have been an easy march to the nomination, allowing herself to be outcampaigned, outsmarted and outspent by a newcomer. In every race she enters she sees huge leads in the opinion polls shrink dramatically as Mr Obama works his rhetorical and organisational magic.
Mr Obama also has plenty of kitchen sinks of his own to throw at his rival. Is Mrs Clinton really the right person to be raising questions about financial shenanigans? Two of Mrs Clinton's closest associates from her years in Arkansas, Jim McDougal, her property partner, and Webb Hubbell, her law-firm partner, were later convicted of felonies.
And besides, exactly what experience does she actually have of answering telephones at three in the morning? Mrs Clinton did not even have security clearance in the White House, and her most important vote in recent years, to authorise the Iraq war, is one that she admits she regrets. When a journalist from Slate magazine asked her closest advisers, on a conference call, to name an international incident in which their candidate has been tested, he was met with a long, embarrassed silence.
But the dynamic in the race has clearly changed yet again. Mrs Clinton can use the peculiar result in Texas—the fact that the caucuses produced such a different vote from the broader primary—to question the significance of Mr Obama's performance in other caucuses, all of which he has won. She can also keep pointing out, as she did this week, that no recent candidate has won the White House without winning Ohio, the truest bellwether state. If Mrs Clinton cannot catch up with Mr Obama in pledged delegates, Mr Obama also has no chance of reaching the 2,025 delegates that would secure him the nomination. Both must rely on superdelegates.
Mrs Clinton is also in pole position to win the next big primary, in Pennsylvania on April 22nd. Pennsylvania is in many ways more like Ohio than Ohio itself, a rust-belt state rich in working-class voters and senior citizens, and a must-win state for the Democrats in the general election. Mrs Clinton also has the support of the state's governor, Mr Rendell, who is determined to perform as well for her as Ted Strickland, the governor of Ohio, did for her this week.
The result will be a punch-up not just in Pennsylvania but in the Democratic Party as a whole as Democrats squabble over everything from party rules (should the delegates from Florida and Michigan be seated or not?) to the relative importance of small and large states. There is an ancient Greek myth, retold in Aeschylus's play “Seven against Thebes”, about two sons of Oedipus who fought so bitterly over who should inherit their father's kingdom that they ended up slaughtering each other. This could be the Democrats' Theban moment.
Never say die
Mar 6th 2008 | AUSTIN, TEXAS AND COLUMBUS, OHIO
From The Economist print edition
The voters in Texas and Ohio have upended the Democratic race yet again

THERE were two big winners in this week's Democratic primaries: Hillary Clinton, who returned from the political graveyard, and John McCain, who, having secured the Republican nomination, can now enjoy the spectacle of the two Democratic candidates at each other's throats for at least another six weeks.
On the morning of March 4th Mrs Clinton faced the end of her presidential dreams. No less a person than her husband had stated that she might have to think of pulling out of the race if she lost in Texas and Ohio. Two of the party's most influential grandees, Ed Rendell, the governor of Pennsylvania, and Bill Richardson, the governor of New Mexico, said much the same thing. Her campaign has had financial problems, is riven by infighting and was overclouded by gloom.
Mrs Clinton's three victories on Tuesday night—in Rhode Island, Ohio and Texas—changed all this. They ended Barack Obama's winning streak of 11 consecutive primaries and caucuses (12 if you count Vermont, which he won early on Tuesday evening). They applied a jolt of energy to the Clinton machine. And they forced a Democratic establishment, which was beginning to view Mr Obama as inevitable, to give Mrs Clinton another chance.
Mrs Clinton pulled off this resurrection by reassembling her core constituency of working-class whites, women, older voters and Latinos. Mr Obama had been steadily eating into these groups during his long winning spell. There was also lots of speculation that the Texas Latinos—who are younger—might behave differently from their Clintonian Californian cousins.
But the exit polls show that Mrs Clinton reforged her bond with these groups. She won women in both Ohio and Texas by 16 and nine points respectively. She won white men in Ohio by 19 points. She won Texas Latinos, who turned out in record numbers, by two to one. Her biggest margins came from people who have not been to university (ie working-class voters). She won these voters by 17 points in Texas and an astonishing 32 points in Ohio.
Mrs Clinton was clearly helped by her decision to mount a bare-knuckle assault on Mr Obama in the days before the election. She hammered him as not being prepared to be commander-in-chief (an advertisement showed a phone ringing in the White House at 3am and a poised Mrs Clinton answering it). She skewered him for talking out of both sides of his mouth on NAFTA (an Obama adviser seemingly assured the Canadians that he was not really threatening to tear up the trade deal).
She was also helped by a fit of guilt in the press corps. The Clinton campaign has been complaining for weeks that the press have treated Mr Obama with kid gloves. But what arguably gave the journalists the kick they needed was a skit on “Saturday Night Live” which skewered journalists for pandering to Mr Obama. The press pack turned on Mr Obama dramatically in the couple of days before the election—peppering him with questions about his position on NAFTA and his ties with Tony Rezko, a Chicago businessman (see article). Mr Obama responded with less than his normal aplomb, to put it mildly.
These twin assaults clearly had an impact. Mrs Clinton won decisively among people who made up their minds in the last moment (a fifth of Texans and of Ohioans). But Mrs Clinton's success in throwing the kitchen sink at Obama was abetted by worries about the kitchen table. The rapidly deteriorating economy is spreading gloom and anxiety across the land, playing to Mrs Clinton's strengths as a tried-and-tested manager and taking the wind out of Mr Obama's vague talk of “change” and “hope”. Half the voters in Texas and three-fifths in Ohio regarded the economy as the most important issue.
Mrs Clinton's assaults on Mr Obama were not very pretty—particularly her Nixonian assurance that her rival is not a Muslim “as far as I know”. But Mrs Clinton was also helped by her extraordinary indomitability in the face of adversity. The former first lady managed to march on despite chaos in her campaign and growing calls for her to withdraw from the race. The best line in her victory speech, in Columbus, Ohio, came when she used this indomitability to strike a chord with hard-pressed Americans: “For everyone here in Ohio and across America who's ever been counted out but refused to be knocked out, and for everyone who has stumbled but stood right back up, and for everyone who works hard and never gives up, this one's for you.”
The fighter still faces daunting odds. Mr Obama began March 4th with a lead of around 160 delegates. For all the headlines about her victories in Ohio and Texas, the Democratic Party's system of allocating votes proportionally means that she has done almost nothing to close her delegate gap. Mrs Clinton gained only about a net nine delegates from her ten-point win in Ohio. And thanks to Texas's bizarre “two-step” voting system, which allows primary voters to vote again in a Democratic caucus, she ended up securing only one or two more delegates than he did. Mr Obama won in the caucus, in which only about 100,000 people voted, versus 2.8m in the primary.
By some calculations she still needs to win more than 60% of the popular vote in the remaining contests to have a chance of catching up with Mr Obama—a near impossibility (she only won 54% in Ohio). Mr Obama is likely to resume his winning streak in the forthcoming contests in Wyoming on March 8th and is certain to do so in Mississippi on March 11th.
Texas and Ohio will not change the fact that Mrs Clinton has messed up what should have been an easy march to the nomination, allowing herself to be outcampaigned, outsmarted and outspent by a newcomer. In every race she enters she sees huge leads in the opinion polls shrink dramatically as Mr Obama works his rhetorical and organisational magic.
Mr Obama also has plenty of kitchen sinks of his own to throw at his rival. Is Mrs Clinton really the right person to be raising questions about financial shenanigans? Two of Mrs Clinton's closest associates from her years in Arkansas, Jim McDougal, her property partner, and Webb Hubbell, her law-firm partner, were later convicted of felonies.
And besides, exactly what experience does she actually have of answering telephones at three in the morning? Mrs Clinton did not even have security clearance in the White House, and her most important vote in recent years, to authorise the Iraq war, is one that she admits she regrets. When a journalist from Slate magazine asked her closest advisers, on a conference call, to name an international incident in which their candidate has been tested, he was met with a long, embarrassed silence.
But the dynamic in the race has clearly changed yet again. Mrs Clinton can use the peculiar result in Texas—the fact that the caucuses produced such a different vote from the broader primary—to question the significance of Mr Obama's performance in other caucuses, all of which he has won. She can also keep pointing out, as she did this week, that no recent candidate has won the White House without winning Ohio, the truest bellwether state. If Mrs Clinton cannot catch up with Mr Obama in pledged delegates, Mr Obama also has no chance of reaching the 2,025 delegates that would secure him the nomination. Both must rely on superdelegates.
Mrs Clinton is also in pole position to win the next big primary, in Pennsylvania on April 22nd. Pennsylvania is in many ways more like Ohio than Ohio itself, a rust-belt state rich in working-class voters and senior citizens, and a must-win state for the Democrats in the general election. Mrs Clinton also has the support of the state's governor, Mr Rendell, who is determined to perform as well for her as Ted Strickland, the governor of Ohio, did for her this week.
The result will be a punch-up not just in Pennsylvania but in the Democratic Party as a whole as Democrats squabble over everything from party rules (should the delegates from Florida and Michigan be seated or not?) to the relative importance of small and large states. There is an ancient Greek myth, retold in Aeschylus's play “Seven against Thebes”, about two sons of Oedipus who fought so bitterly over who should inherit their father's kingdom that they ended up slaughtering each other. This could be the Democrats' Theban moment.
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50484
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1139
Clintonova je izgubila u Texasu. Ja bi ovo ponavljao sto puta svakome ko napise suprotno. (ne mislim tebi pitte, nego komentarisem novinarske 'spins'). Ovo stvarno pocinje ici na zive kako novinari glupavo 'analiziraju' i napumpavaju, te izvrcu cinjenice. Halo! Clintonova je cekala sedmicama 'Texas i Ohio' dok je Obama pobjedjivao drzavu za drzavom. Kao, sve ce ona to nadoknaditi u velikim Tx i Oh. Na kraju, njena prednost u OH se znacajno smanjila, a u TX je izgubila.pitt wrote:Mrs Clinton's three victories on Tuesday night—in Rhode Island, Ohio and Texas—changed all this. .
Novinari jedva cekaju da pricaju o nekakvim 'momentums'. Evo sad kao Obama je u 'momentum' zato sto je uzeo WY i MS. Mislim, ono.
- pitt
- Posts: 27093
- Joined: 03/12/2002 00:00
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#1140
clanak je printan prije nego se znalo da je Obama pobjedio caucus. I oni sami kazu da ce joj i to najvjerovatnije biti uzalud.jeza u ledja wrote:Clintonova je izgubila u Texasu. Ja bi ovo ponavljao sto puta svakome ko napise suprotno. (ne mislim tebi pitte, nego komentarisem novinarske 'spins'). Ovo stvarno pocinje ici na zive kako novinari glupavo 'analiziraju' i napumpavaju, te izvrcu cinjenice. Halo! Clintonova je cekala sedmicama 'Texas i Ohio' dok je Obama pobjedjivao drzavu za drzavom. Kao, sve ce ona to nadoknaditi u velikim Tx i Oh. Na kraju, njena prednost u OH se znacajno smanjila, a u TX je izgubila.pitt wrote:Mrs Clinton's three victories on Tuesday night—in Rhode Island, Ohio and Texas—changed all this. .
Novinari jedva cekaju da pricaju o nekakvim 'momentums'. Evo sad kao Obama je u 'momentum' zato sto je uzeo WY i MS. Mislim, ono.
- jeza u ledja
- Posts: 50484
- Joined: 29/12/2005 01:20
#1141
Pise 6 mart, znalo se vec u srijedu da Obama uzima caucuses. Samo sto se iz nekog razloga cekalo tek danas da se to potvrdi.
- pitt
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#1142 Re:
pa znas i sam da ozbuiljne novuine cekaju da se potvrdi vijest prije objave. Nisu svi avaz ili NYTjeza u ledja wrote:Pise 6 mart, znalo se vec u srijedu da Obama uzima caucuses. Samo sto se iz nekog razloga cekalo tek danas da se to potvrdi.
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artzy
- Posts: 839
- Joined: 03/01/2005 05:52
#1143 Re:
Nek crkne u putu!!! I nek samoubije sve svoje rodjake...sitno wrote:Mislim da ovo ima smisla. Na (najjuznijem) jugu sam upoznala gdju Amerikaknku (koja nema bas nikakve veze sa Balkanom - osim kulturnih) i ona mi je rekla da ce emigrirati u Hrvatsku ako pobjedi Obama ili nedaj Boze Hilari. Doslovno tim rjecima, iako se radi o zeni od preko 70 god.hik--meta wrote:sa cnn-a:pa kad kazu da rasa ne igra ulogu... ovdje u atlanti su sami crnci izasli na primaries, a kad i bijelci izadju u novembru, huso nema sanse.Mississippi Democratic voters were sharply divided among racial lines in Tuesday's primary, exit polls indicate.
As has been the case in many primary states, Obama won overwhelming support from African-American voters. They went for him over Clinton 91-9 percent.
But Mississippi white voters overwhelmingly backed the New York senator, supporting her over Obama 72 percent to 21 percent.
sta kazu ovdje moje komsije, nedaj boze da pobijedi obama, digli bi se na oruzje kao 1861, pa sta bude nek bude.
Smrt fasizmu!!!
Kako je zilav fasizam... cak u svojim sedamdesetim... j@bao je Nazi Bush...
- hik--meta
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#1144 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
takvi su bijeli juznjaci, sta da im covjek radi? ne bendaju puno yankee-je.
- pitt
- Posts: 27093
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#1145 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Joj vjestica mi je vec 2 dana u mahali
:D Jutros je vidim na St. Patrick's Day paradi........umotala se u zeleno
:D:D
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EI Presidente
- Posts: 765
- Joined: 17/11/2004 21:24
#1146 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
vani zeleno, unutra crveno...ona ko neki u Bosnipitt wrote:Joj vjestica mi je vec 2 dana u mahali:D Jutros je vidim na St. Patrick's Day paradi........umotala se u zeleno
:D:D
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Svjedok istorije
- Posts: 106
- Joined: 13/03/2008 23:27
#1147 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Obama je popularan medju mladim i skolovnaim jer je postao sibol i bastion borbe naroda protiv dobro uvezane grupe na vlasti koja se odrzava vezama i vezicama sa "specijalnim interesima" manipulisuci cak i rasne osjecanja gradjana Amerike.
Medjutim, isto imamo i u Bosni, jednu doboro uvezanu grupu ljudi koji su samo kao bajagi u razlicitim strankama. Svi oni su smao jedan tim koji nas vrti oko malog prsta. Nazalost mi nemamo nasega Obamu, jos. SDP bi bio prirodni bastion borbe za ujedinjenu BiH, kao sto je Obama simbol borbe za ujedinjenu Ameriku, ali Zlaja suruje potpuno neprincipijelno sad sa Silajdzicem, sad sa Tihicem i slicnim i SDP je postao njihov saveznik u podjeli BiH.
Medjutim, cijeli svijet je jedno bojiste izmedju snaga dobra i zla, izmedju manipulatora i manipulisanih. Mozda je Amerika veci front od Bosne, ali i Bosna je jedan vazan front na tom bojistu.
A obaveza nas Bosanaca, grdjana BiH je da drzimo taj front, da tu ne pobijedi presedan da se drzava dijeli na bazi vjere i nacije, sredstvima genocida i agresije. Zato se ja ne brinem previse za Ameriku, jer Bosna je moj rov u borbi protiv zla.
Medjutim, isto imamo i u Bosni, jednu doboro uvezanu grupu ljudi koji su samo kao bajagi u razlicitim strankama. Svi oni su smao jedan tim koji nas vrti oko malog prsta. Nazalost mi nemamo nasega Obamu, jos. SDP bi bio prirodni bastion borbe za ujedinjenu BiH, kao sto je Obama simbol borbe za ujedinjenu Ameriku, ali Zlaja suruje potpuno neprincipijelno sad sa Silajdzicem, sad sa Tihicem i slicnim i SDP je postao njihov saveznik u podjeli BiH.
Medjutim, cijeli svijet je jedno bojiste izmedju snaga dobra i zla, izmedju manipulatora i manipulisanih. Mozda je Amerika veci front od Bosne, ali i Bosna je jedan vazan front na tom bojistu.
A obaveza nas Bosanaca, grdjana BiH je da drzimo taj front, da tu ne pobijedi presedan da se drzava dijeli na bazi vjere i nacije, sredstvima genocida i agresije. Zato se ja ne brinem previse za Ameriku, jer Bosna je moj rov u borbi protiv zla.
- pitt
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#1148 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
ma zajebala ih je sve. maherka pravaEI Presidente wrote:vani zeleno, unutra crveno...ona ko neki u Bosnipitt wrote:Joj vjestica mi je vec 2 dana u mahali:D Jutros je vidim na St. Patrick's Day paradi........umotala se u zeleno
:D:D
Sad me zovu iz obamine kampanje da promjenim registraciju za demokrate jer necu moci glasati ako sam independent
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walkabout
- Posts: 7869
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#1149 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
Pitte,
Kad bidnesh naoti konvenshn da te proture naspisak, mahsuz chesh sellam for kandidejt Husso kad se ufatish rukovat sanjim - i nemoj zaboravit poljubit uruku pa na chelo kako je i red unaske.
PS. Narezili dajdzincu sto se ne javlja, sramota nek je bidne, vjestica jedna.
Kad bidnesh naoti konvenshn da te proture naspisak, mahsuz chesh sellam for kandidejt Husso kad se ufatish rukovat sanjim - i nemoj zaboravit poljubit uruku pa na chelo kako je i red unaske.
PS. Narezili dajdzincu sto se ne javlja, sramota nek je bidne, vjestica jedna.
- pitt
- Posts: 27093
- Joined: 03/12/2002 00:00
- Location: Steelers Nation
#1150 Re: Amerikanski izbori: Prajmariz
jasta je. Mada ce bogami i ovdje hilka uzeti najvjerovatnije. gledam kako joj se u shupak uvlace guverner i gradonacelnik......jadovi 
