Eh upravo tako. To sam i ja rekao. Jos nam fali samo podatak ili odgovor na trece pitanje: Koliko je jevreja u senatu/kongresu/administraciji i svakom ce biti jasno sta je amerika.danas wrote:muslimanski imigranti su jedna od najobrazovanijih manjina u u USA:Ahmmed wrote:Grom iz vedra neba wrote:Da li bi neko mogao odgovoriti na ova pitanja ako zna tacne podatke?
-Koliko ima muslimana u Americi procentualno?
-Koliko ima jevreja u Americi procentualno?
-Koliko jevreja ima u Kongresu i Senatu i u Bushovoj administraciji?
I ne bi bilo loše, da znamo obrazovnu strukturu muslimana u SAD!
Tek tada, Grome, možemo raspravljati u kontekstu podataka koje si ti tražio!
Moslem immigrants of recent years boast exceptionally high levels of education. A 1999 survey found that 52 percent of them have a graduate degree.
South Asians appear to be the best educated of all. (Exceptions to this pattern do exist, of course: Yemeni farmers, Iraqi soldiers, and most illegal immigrants are far less educated.) This impressive fact results in part from the Moslem community in North America drawing disproportionately on the elites. Very often it is the best educated who come to settle in the United States. Some of the most talented members of society are establishing new lives in the West.
Immigrant Moslems tend to concentrate in the professional and entrepreneurial vocations, and especially in engineering and medicine, which jointly employ about one-third of Moslems in the United States.
With such high educational levels, it comes as no surprise that many members of this community have done well; average income for Moslems appears to be higher than the U.S. national average. Although new, the community boasts a good share of millionaires as well as many other accomplished individuals (including one Nobel Prize winner in chemistry, Ahmed H. Zewail, and such notables as the movie actor Omar Sharif, the basketball player Hakeem Olajuwon, and the model Iman). Moslem Americans proudly say that theirs is "the richest Moslem society on earth" (as Muqtedar Khan put it in the December 1995 edition of the Message), and they are right; more than that, it may be the most accomplished.
vise na: http://www.falange.us/facesof.htm -- uzas od stranice
Prvi musliman izabran u USA kongres
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Grom iz vedra neba
- Posts: 1485
- Joined: 25/06/2006 03:05
#101
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SherlockHolmes
- Posts: 1259
- Joined: 27/02/2005 23:58
#103
@pitte, tako su i njofrini hrvatima muslimanske vjeroispovjesti nekoc tepali 
Last edited by SherlockHolmes on 06/12/2006 22:19, edited 2 times in total.
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DONY
- Posts: 1257
- Joined: 20/07/2006 18:23
#104
Muslimanski emigranti su samo dio muslimanske populacije u Americi..Grom iz vedra neba wrote:Eh upravo tako. To sam i ja rekao. Jos nam fali samo podatak ili odgovor na trece pitanje: Koliko je jevreja u senatu/kongresu/administraciji i svakom ce biti jasno sta je amerika.danas wrote:muslimanski imigranti su jedna od najobrazovanijih manjina u u USA:Ahmmed wrote:
I ne bi bilo loše, da znamo obrazovnu strukturu muslimana u SAD!
Tek tada, Grome, možemo raspravljati u kontekstu podataka koje si ti tražio!
Moslem immigrants of recent years boast exceptionally high levels of education. A 1999 survey found that 52 percent of them have a graduate degree.
South Asians appear to be the best educated of all. (Exceptions to this pattern do exist, of course: Yemeni farmers, Iraqi soldiers, and most illegal immigrants are far less educated.) This impressive fact results in part from the Moslem community in North America drawing disproportionately on the elites. Very often it is the best educated who come to settle in the United States. Some of the most talented members of society are establishing new lives in the West.
Immigrant Moslems tend to concentrate in the professional and entrepreneurial vocations, and especially in engineering and medicine, which jointly employ about one-third of Moslems in the United States.
With such high educational levels, it comes as no surprise that many members of this community have done well; average income for Moslems appears to be higher than the U.S. national average. Although new, the community boasts a good share of millionaires as well as many other accomplished individuals (including one Nobel Prize winner in chemistry, Ahmed H. Zewail, and such notables as the movie actor Omar Sharif, the basketball player Hakeem Olajuwon, and the model Iman). Moslem Americans proudly say that theirs is "the richest Moslem society on earth" (as Muqtedar Khan put it in the December 1995 edition of the Message), and they are right; more than that, it may be the most accomplished.
vise na: http://www.falange.us/facesof.htm -- uzas od stranice
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pitt
- Posts: 27093
- Joined: 03/12/2002 00:00
- Location: Steelers Nation
#105
A evo sta i mrski (evropski) the Economist kaze:
I lijepa slika nadasve:D:D
The West and Islam
Tales from Eurabia
Jun 22nd 2006
From The Economist print edition
Contrary to fears on both sides of the Atlantic, integrating Europe's Muslims can be done
THIS week George Bush was in Vienna, doing his best to mend relations with his allies. The list of disputes between the United States and Europe remains long and familiar: Guantánamo, Iraq, Iran, the common agricultural policy. Less easy for Mr Bush to talk about, let alone fix, is the equally long list of different attitudes from which so many transatlantic tensions seem to spring—opposing prejudices on everything from capitalism and religiosity to Mr Bush's “war on terror”.
These underlying emotions—what a British historian, Sir Lewis Namier, once called “the music to which [political] ideas are a mere libretto”—occasionally converge around a particular issue, such as Guantánamo Bay or Hurricane Katrina. This can be unhelpful: Katrina made America look like a failed state, Guantánamo is not a typical example of American justice. Now a similar caricature—this time about Europe—is forming in America (see article). It is known as “Eurabia”, and it represents an ever-growing Muslim Europe-within-Europe—poor, unassimilated and hostile to the United States.
Two years ago, the White House's favourite Arabist scholar, Bernard Lewis, gave a warning that Europe would turn Muslim by the end of this century, becoming “part of the Arab West, the Maghreb”. Now there is a plethora of books with titles like “While Europe Slept” and “Menace in Europe” (see article). Stagnant Europe, goes the standard argument, cannot offer immigrants jobs; appeasing Europe will not clamp down on Islamofascist extremism; secular Europe cannot deal with religiosity (in some cities, more people go to mosques each week than to churches). Europe needs to study America's melting pot, where Muslims fare better.
Londonistan calling
Such advice gets short shrift from European leaders, who often blame Muslim militancy on American foreign policy. But something similar to Eurabia scares many Europeans too. Terrorism is part of it, thanks to the Madrid and London bombings (as well as September 11th). But it goes wider than that: the past two years have seen riots in France's banlieues, the uproar about Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, the murder of Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film-maker, and now the virtual exile (to America) of his muse, Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Fears about “Londonistan” and so on have helped Europe's far right; on the other side of politics, a bizarre alliance has sprung up between the anti-war left and Islamic hardliners. But the respectable centre is split between France's strict integrationist approach (banning Muslim children from wearing head-scarves in state schools) and the more tolerant multiculturalism of Britain and the Netherlands. The debate about Turkey (and its 71m Muslims) joining the European Union is increasingly a Eurabian one. Meanwhile, at the centre of all this fuss Europe's Muslims are themselves riven by inter-generational arguments on everything from whether there is a European version of Islam to which cricket team to support.
Is Eurabia really something to worry about? The concept includes a string of myths and a couple of hard truths. Most of the myths have to do with the potency of Islam in Europe. The European Union is home to no more than 20m Muslims, or 4% of the union's inhabitants. That figure would soar closer to 17% if Turkey were to join the EU—but that, alas, is something that Europeans are far less keen on than Americans are. Even taking into account Christian and agnostic Europe's lousy breeding record, Muslims will account for no more than a tenth of west Europe's population by 2025. Besides, Europe's Muslims are not homogenous. Britain's mainly South Asian Muslims have far less in common with France's North African migrants or Germany's Turks than they do with other Britons.
Arguments about alienation are also more complicated than they first appear. Many European terrorists were either relatively well-off or apparently well-integrated. The Muslims who torched France's suburbs last year were the ones who seldom attend mosques. First-generation immigrants (with the strongest ties to the Muslim world) seem to be less radical than their European-educated sons and daughters. And the treatment of them is far from uniform either: for all the American charges of “appeasement”, the FBI is a downright softie compared with France's internal security services.
Give us jobs, education and a seat on the city council
Given these subtleties, perhaps the most dangerous myth is the idea that there is one sure-fire answer when it comes to assimilating Europe's Muslims. In some cases, integrationism goes too far (France's head-scarf ban was surely harsh); but multiculturalism can too (Britain is now reining in its Muslim schools). America's church-state divide and its tolerance of religious fervour are attractive, but its fabled melting pot is not a definitive guide either: many American Muslims are black, and many Arab-Americans are Christian. In some ways, a better comparison (in terms of numbers and closeness of homeland) is with Latinos—and nobody in Europe is (yet) talking about building a wall to keep Muslims out.
Yet amid all this hyperbole, two hard realities stand out. The first is the importance of jobs. In America, it is easy for a newcomer to get work and hard to claim welfare; in Europe the opposite is true. Deregulating labour markets is a less emotive subject than head-scarves or cartoons, but it matters far more.
Second, the future of Europe's Muslims, no less than that of America's Latinos, lies with the young. For every depressing statistic about integration—France's prisons hold nine times more young men with North African fathers than ones with French fathers—there are several reassuring ones: a quarter of young Muslim Frenchwomen are married to non-Muslim men; Muslims are flocking to British universities and even popping up in white bastions like the Tory party. In 50 years' time, Americans may be praising this generation of European Muslims for leading the enlightenment that Islam needed.
Europe's Islamic experience will be different from America's: geography and history have seen to that already. Integration will be hard work for all concerned. But for the moment at least, the prospect of Eurabia looks like scaremongering.
I lijepa slika nadasve
:D:DThe West and Islam
Tales from Eurabia
Jun 22nd 2006
From The Economist print edition
Contrary to fears on both sides of the Atlantic, integrating Europe's Muslims can be done
THIS week George Bush was in Vienna, doing his best to mend relations with his allies. The list of disputes between the United States and Europe remains long and familiar: Guantánamo, Iraq, Iran, the common agricultural policy. Less easy for Mr Bush to talk about, let alone fix, is the equally long list of different attitudes from which so many transatlantic tensions seem to spring—opposing prejudices on everything from capitalism and religiosity to Mr Bush's “war on terror”.
These underlying emotions—what a British historian, Sir Lewis Namier, once called “the music to which [political] ideas are a mere libretto”—occasionally converge around a particular issue, such as Guantánamo Bay or Hurricane Katrina. This can be unhelpful: Katrina made America look like a failed state, Guantánamo is not a typical example of American justice. Now a similar caricature—this time about Europe—is forming in America (see article). It is known as “Eurabia”, and it represents an ever-growing Muslim Europe-within-Europe—poor, unassimilated and hostile to the United States.
Two years ago, the White House's favourite Arabist scholar, Bernard Lewis, gave a warning that Europe would turn Muslim by the end of this century, becoming “part of the Arab West, the Maghreb”. Now there is a plethora of books with titles like “While Europe Slept” and “Menace in Europe” (see article). Stagnant Europe, goes the standard argument, cannot offer immigrants jobs; appeasing Europe will not clamp down on Islamofascist extremism; secular Europe cannot deal with religiosity (in some cities, more people go to mosques each week than to churches). Europe needs to study America's melting pot, where Muslims fare better.
Londonistan calling
Such advice gets short shrift from European leaders, who often blame Muslim militancy on American foreign policy. But something similar to Eurabia scares many Europeans too. Terrorism is part of it, thanks to the Madrid and London bombings (as well as September 11th). But it goes wider than that: the past two years have seen riots in France's banlieues, the uproar about Danish cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, the murder of Theo van Gogh, a Dutch film-maker, and now the virtual exile (to America) of his muse, Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Fears about “Londonistan” and so on have helped Europe's far right; on the other side of politics, a bizarre alliance has sprung up between the anti-war left and Islamic hardliners. But the respectable centre is split between France's strict integrationist approach (banning Muslim children from wearing head-scarves in state schools) and the more tolerant multiculturalism of Britain and the Netherlands. The debate about Turkey (and its 71m Muslims) joining the European Union is increasingly a Eurabian one. Meanwhile, at the centre of all this fuss Europe's Muslims are themselves riven by inter-generational arguments on everything from whether there is a European version of Islam to which cricket team to support.
Is Eurabia really something to worry about? The concept includes a string of myths and a couple of hard truths. Most of the myths have to do with the potency of Islam in Europe. The European Union is home to no more than 20m Muslims, or 4% of the union's inhabitants. That figure would soar closer to 17% if Turkey were to join the EU—but that, alas, is something that Europeans are far less keen on than Americans are. Even taking into account Christian and agnostic Europe's lousy breeding record, Muslims will account for no more than a tenth of west Europe's population by 2025. Besides, Europe's Muslims are not homogenous. Britain's mainly South Asian Muslims have far less in common with France's North African migrants or Germany's Turks than they do with other Britons.
Arguments about alienation are also more complicated than they first appear. Many European terrorists were either relatively well-off or apparently well-integrated. The Muslims who torched France's suburbs last year were the ones who seldom attend mosques. First-generation immigrants (with the strongest ties to the Muslim world) seem to be less radical than their European-educated sons and daughters. And the treatment of them is far from uniform either: for all the American charges of “appeasement”, the FBI is a downright softie compared with France's internal security services.
Give us jobs, education and a seat on the city council
Given these subtleties, perhaps the most dangerous myth is the idea that there is one sure-fire answer when it comes to assimilating Europe's Muslims. In some cases, integrationism goes too far (France's head-scarf ban was surely harsh); but multiculturalism can too (Britain is now reining in its Muslim schools). America's church-state divide and its tolerance of religious fervour are attractive, but its fabled melting pot is not a definitive guide either: many American Muslims are black, and many Arab-Americans are Christian. In some ways, a better comparison (in terms of numbers and closeness of homeland) is with Latinos—and nobody in Europe is (yet) talking about building a wall to keep Muslims out.
Yet amid all this hyperbole, two hard realities stand out. The first is the importance of jobs. In America, it is easy for a newcomer to get work and hard to claim welfare; in Europe the opposite is true. Deregulating labour markets is a less emotive subject than head-scarves or cartoons, but it matters far more.
Second, the future of Europe's Muslims, no less than that of America's Latinos, lies with the young. For every depressing statistic about integration—France's prisons hold nine times more young men with North African fathers than ones with French fathers—there are several reassuring ones: a quarter of young Muslim Frenchwomen are married to non-Muslim men; Muslims are flocking to British universities and even popping up in white bastions like the Tory party. In 50 years' time, Americans may be praising this generation of European Muslims for leading the enlightenment that Islam needed.
Europe's Islamic experience will be different from America's: geography and history have seen to that already. Integration will be hard work for all concerned. But for the moment at least, the prospect of Eurabia looks like scaremongering.
Last edited by pitt on 06/12/2006 22:23, edited 2 times in total.
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Grom iz vedra neba
- Posts: 1485
- Joined: 25/06/2006 03:05
#106
Valjda si mislio reci imigranti. Emigranti su odseljenici. Ali nebitno, poenta ostaje ista, ko u Americi nije imigrant? Indijanci?DONY wrote:Muslimanski emigranti su samo dio muslimanske populacije u Americi..Grom iz vedra neba wrote:Eh upravo tako. To sam i ja rekao. Jos nam fali samo podatak ili odgovor na trece pitanje: Koliko je jevreja u senatu/kongresu/administraciji i svakom ce biti jasno sta je amerika.danas wrote: muslimanski imigranti su jedna od najobrazovanijih manjina u u USA:
vise na: http://www.falange.us/facesof.htm -- uzas od stranice
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DONY
- Posts: 1257
- Joined: 20/07/2006 18:23
#107
Mislim da se razumijemo..Black -American nisu obuhvaceni u ovim diskusijama,a oni su ipak znacajno prisutni u muslimanskoj populaciji.Grom iz vedra neba wrote:Valjda si mislio reci imigranti. Emigranti su odseljenici. Ali nebitno, poenta ostaje ista, ko u Americi nije imigrant? Indijanci?DONY wrote:Muslimanski emigranti su samo dio muslimanske populacije u Americi..Grom iz vedra neba wrote: Eh upravo tako. To sam i ja rekao. Jos nam fali samo podatak ili odgovor na trece pitanje: Koliko je jevreja u senatu/kongresu/administraciji i svakom ce biti jasno sta je amerika.
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stickitout
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: 15/01/2005 23:58
#109
kakav bi bio adekvatan odgovor?danas wrote:diskusija se ipak vodi u tonu pitanja 'kako je imigrantima muslimanima u USA i evropi'...
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stickitout
- Posts: 1744
- Joined: 15/01/2005 23:58
#112
Evo odgovora, al' prije da ce bit' "chafirat"pitt wrote:ma sve ce to biti jedan kalifat na kraju
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rajvosa^
- Posts: 1787
- Joined: 18/05/2006 19:38
#113
Stotine hiljada bosanaca u americi, desetine hiljada muslimana iz BiH u dijelu kalifornije gdje zivim. Znam dvojicu koji su se vratili i jedno 5 familija koji se mozda misle vratiti. I par ovih s foruma sa-x. A kontaktiram s kamaru ljudi iz BiH sirom amerike. 90% posto ne voli poteze americke vlade, a 100% poteze Bosanskih politicara.
Radim za kompaniju od oko 200 radnika, od toga ima najmanje 30 muslimana. Imam nekoliko havera iz Afganistana za zajebanim prezimenom, jedan od njih je menadzer mehanicara za United Airlines.
Ovo su samo neke cinjenice iz prve ruke. Tako da sve ove price o ugrozenosti muslimana (tamnoputih kako neko spomenu) u US, moze macku o rep okaciti. Cuje se nekoliko incidenata koje tv stanice i novine obozavaju I u jebote mi smo ugrozeni. Ne lupajte. Oh i nisam 5 mjeseci u Americi. No offense SJ!
A kontaktiram s kamaru ljudi iz BiH sirom amerike. 90% posto ne voli poteze americke vlade, a 100% poteze Bosanskih politicara.Radim za kompaniju od oko 200 radnika, od toga ima najmanje 30 muslimana. Imam nekoliko havera iz Afganistana za zajebanim prezimenom, jedan od njih je menadzer mehanicara za United Airlines.
Ovo su samo neke cinjenice iz prve ruke. Tako da sve ove price o ugrozenosti muslimana (tamnoputih kako neko spomenu) u US, moze macku o rep okaciti. Cuje se nekoliko incidenata koje tv stanice i novine obozavaju I u jebote mi smo ugrozeni. Ne lupajte. Oh i nisam 5 mjeseci u Americi.
No offense SJ! 
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Svemirski_Jebach
- Posts: 3929
- Joined: 13/08/2003 00:00
- Location: Tel Aviv
#115
nemam se ja sta ljutiti. Ja sam bosanac a ne amer.
Ali u danasnjem svijetu ne moras biti negdje da bi mogao stvorit kvalitetnu sliku stvari.
Samo ne podnosim bezvezne kritike amerike od strane ljudi koji nista ni o njoj a niti u europi ne znaju.
Ali u danasnjem svijetu ne moras biti negdje da bi mogao stvorit kvalitetnu sliku stvari.
Samo ne podnosim bezvezne kritike amerike od strane ljudi koji nista ni o njoj a niti u europi ne znaju.
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Bosnian_spring
- Posts: 363
- Joined: 12/07/2006 22:10
#116
Sa kojim amerikancima si razgovarala? Kakva pitanja? O kuhanju sarmi ili izgradnji space-shuttle?dinchy84 wrote:Desava se svasta u Evropi,to je cinjenica.
Ali, ono sto mene kod amerikanaca licno nervira nije rasizam (citav svijet me zbog toga nervira), vec njihova ignorancija.Trpaju se hamburgerima, procitaju jednu knjigu godisnje i misle da su centar svijeta.Imala sam priliku razgovarati sa mnogim amerikancima i postavljali su mi takva pitanja da ja nisam mogla da vjerujem.
Amerika ima oko 300 miliona ljudi i svega i svasta u sebi. Sa vojnicima po Bosni koji imaju jedva srednju skolu? Sa doktorima nauka ili sa studentima ili sa cistacima ulica?
Ko kaze da amerikanci se trpaju burgerima, glupi su, citaju jednu knjigu itd.? To ti je isto kao kad neko kaze da bosanci svaki dan zderu cevape, glava im je ko' bukva, nemaju svih zuba u glavi, primitivni su i samo znaju ratovati i zive plemenskim zivotom
? Eto meni to veli kona koja je konine amidzinice jaranica daidze sestra koja je bila u Bosni 2 minuta, 34 sekunde i 56 stotih djelova sekunde 
Da tek vidis kako Bosanci odgovaraju kad mi postavis isto pitanja na ulici cak u sred Sarajeva. Da padnes od smijeha i nevjerice da ne znaju osnovne stvari. A Bosna je mala ko kap u moru vode spram Amerike.
E....sad zamisli kad bi upitao nekog "prosjecno" obrazovanog u Bosni koji zivi u selu HajNehaj kod Cekrcica da ti malo odgovori o tome sta to npr. Paul Wolfowitz misli, koliki je bruto nacionalnih dohodak Bosne, sto je to filozofija neo-konezervativizma ili koji je glavni grad drzave Iowa?
Sumljam da tu ti ljudi procitali i jednu knjigu u cijelom svom zivotu, a kamoli godisnje. U Bosni nazalost postoji jos nepismenost ako nisi znala.
Ono o cemu ti pricas su tipicni stereotipovi....
Last edited by Bosnian_spring on 07/12/2006 00:25, edited 5 times in total.
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Tesssa
- Posts: 3753
- Joined: 29/11/2006 15:33
- Location: nja nja :)
- Contact:
#117
stereotipi valjda...ali nema veze.
Nisam pricala sa vojnicima, pricala sam sa drugim ljudima, ali nije to bitno.
Ono sto je cinjenica je da i sami amerikanci priznaju te cinjence, tako da nisam ja nista izmislila.
Istina je, prosjecan bosanac nema pojma o tim stvarima, ali se ne pravi pametan.A amerikanci se prave kao da su pokupili svu pamet svijeta.
Ja sam sve ove zakljucke izvela iz onoga sto sam vidjela na tv-u, sto svaki dan gledam na internetu, sto sam cula od drugih ljudi.
Nisam pricala sa vojnicima, pricala sam sa drugim ljudima, ali nije to bitno.
Ono sto je cinjenica je da i sami amerikanci priznaju te cinjence, tako da nisam ja nista izmislila.
Istina je, prosjecan bosanac nema pojma o tim stvarima, ali se ne pravi pametan.A amerikanci se prave kao da su pokupili svu pamet svijeta.
Ja sam sve ove zakljucke izvela iz onoga sto sam vidjela na tv-u, sto svaki dan gledam na internetu, sto sam cula od drugih ljudi.
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Vozdra_123
- Posts: 2213
- Joined: 31/12/2003 00:00
- Location: SAD/Kanada
#118
zato smo mi kanadjani pokupili svu pamet i polako zavladavamo amerikom
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freak_with_a_laptop
- Posts: 1024
- Joined: 12/10/2006 13:01
- Location: Kifino selo
#119
@Nosferatu
Svakako da je potrebno stvar sagledati iz vise perspektiva, narocito kad se radi o jednoj kompleksnoj strukturi, kao sto je u Iraku. To potpisujem. Sve te podatke sto si naveo o Siitima, Sunitima i Kurdima su vrlo poznati, meni bar jesu.
Medjutim, koliko god da se mi trudimo, da sliku razjasnimo, da problematiku shvatimo - Amerika nema opravdanje za invaziju na Irak, sem nacionalnog interesa. Sjeti se samo prezentacije od sekretara Powell u Februaru 2003 pred UN-vijecem - kakva blamaza, kakva komedija del arte.
Da bi shvatili invaziju na Irak, Afganistan a vjerovatno u buduce i Iran, ja bih svakome preporucila da se zabavi sa nacrtom od "Project for the new american century" (PNAC) - a neo-conservative think tank! Pametni a i mocni ljudi se tu okupljaju i savjetuju, kao sto su Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Armitage, Richard Perle, John R. Bolton, Lewis Libby, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Thomas Donnelly, Steven Forbes itd itd - klub straha i uzasa.
Nosferatu, ruku na srce, da li smatras, da je invazija na Irak - sa svim konzekvencama - opravdana?
Svakako da je potrebno stvar sagledati iz vise perspektiva, narocito kad se radi o jednoj kompleksnoj strukturi, kao sto je u Iraku. To potpisujem. Sve te podatke sto si naveo o Siitima, Sunitima i Kurdima su vrlo poznati, meni bar jesu.
Medjutim, koliko god da se mi trudimo, da sliku razjasnimo, da problematiku shvatimo - Amerika nema opravdanje za invaziju na Irak, sem nacionalnog interesa. Sjeti se samo prezentacije od sekretara Powell u Februaru 2003 pred UN-vijecem - kakva blamaza, kakva komedija del arte.
Da bi shvatili invaziju na Irak, Afganistan a vjerovatno u buduce i Iran, ja bih svakome preporucila da se zabavi sa nacrtom od "Project for the new american century" (PNAC) - a neo-conservative think tank! Pametni a i mocni ljudi se tu okupljaju i savjetuju, kao sto su Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Armitage, Richard Perle, John R. Bolton, Lewis Libby, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Thomas Donnelly, Steven Forbes itd itd - klub straha i uzasa.
Nosferatu, ruku na srce, da li smatras, da je invazija na Irak - sa svim konzekvencama - opravdana?
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Fair Life
- Posts: 14219
- Joined: 02/03/2004 00:00
#120
Na samom pocetku smo ih stavljali na tavan, nek se nadju za zimu, da se nesto prezalogaji.Svemirski_Jebach wrote:...
Australija je nastala od engleskih zatvorenika koje su tamo deportovali...a sta je bilo sa aboridzinima?
Danas... Australija nastoji da opere svoj obraz u odnosu na genocidne postupke prema Aboridzinima tako da im je dala ogromne beneficije.
Jos da im je kako flasu iz ruke oduzeti... bili bi OK. Puno piju...
Australija je bila raj na zemlji za doseljenike, ali danas se ta slika mijenja. Restrikcije...
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rajvosa^
- Posts: 1787
- Joined: 18/05/2006 19:38
#121
Znaci zakljucci su ti pogresni. Zivi s amerima, radi s amerima, pricaj s amerima pa nam daj zakljucak jesu li popili pamet cijelog svijeta. To isto kao sto ima jedan mi komsija kaze on sve zna kako je rat bio u BiH jer je svaki dan gledao CNN. A ja eto pojma nemam koji sam bio na licu mjesta.dinchy84 wrote:stereotipi valjda...ali nema veze.
Nisam pricala sa vojnicima, pricala sam sa drugim ljudima, ali nije to bitno.
Ono sto je cinjenica je da i sami amerikanci priznaju te cinjence, tako da nisam ja nista izmislila.
Istina je, prosjecan bosanac nema pojma o tim stvarima, ali se ne pravi pametan.A amerikanci se prave kao da su pokupili svu pamet svijeta.
Ja sam sve ove zakljucke izvela iz onoga sto sam vidjela na tv-u, sto svaki dan gledam na internetu, sto sam cula od drugih ljudi.
Ili sto ima kamara ljudi - ne samo amerikanaca- sirom svijeta koji misle da je Bosna "third world country", a kad pokazem par slicica sjebu se ili misle da lazem. Prema tome, zakljucak ti nije tacan, jer gledanje na TV, slusanje radija i surfanje neta nije isto kao i biti tu, zivjeti tu, i dozivljavati iz prve ruke. Eh sta nas je samo na ovom sa-x koji misle da smo svom svijetu pamet popili
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Šandor
- Posts: 2383
- Joined: 13/04/2005 20:26
- Location: Negdje izmedju
#122
Sve do jednom...dok te ne propusti kroz šake neko ko se pali na CNN i njemu slične medije.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"pitt\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\" wrote:Daj ba friki, sd ispade arapi moraju nosati trake oko rukeA eto nek se u evropi ne desavaju slicni incidenti
Ozbiljno, ova propaganda može donijet (ne)željene efekte. Da prvi susjed uleti da te razbije (prvi koji nema pametnija posla
:D ).Neku noć bilo na HRT-u o Sarajevu. Oni kojima je emisija bila jedina prilika da zavire u Bosnu mogu samo steći utisak da ovdje preovladavaju bradonje & zamotane.rajvosa^ wrote:Znaci zakljucci su ti pogresni. Zivi s amerima, radi s amerima, pricaj s amerima pa nam daj zakljucak jesu li popili pamet cijelog svijeta. To isto kao sto ima jedan mi komsija kaze on sve zna kako je rat bio u BiH jer je svaki dan gledao CNN. A ja eto pojma nemam koji sam bio na licu mjesta.
Ili sto ima kamara ljudi - ne samo amerikanaca- sirom svijeta koji misle da je Bosna "third world country", a kad pokazem par slicica sjebu se ili misle da lazem. Prema tome, zakljucak ti nije tacan, jer gledanje na TV, slusanje radija i surfanje neta nije isto kao i biti tu, zivjeti tu, i dozivljavati iz prve ruke. Eh sta nas je samo na ovom sa-x koji misle da smo svom svijetu pamet popili
Onda se neki pitaju zašto ljudi navijaju PROTIV Hrvatske? 
Poneki Hrvat će shvatiti da je riječ o propagandi. Ali šta ćemo sa Britancima, Amerikancima, Kanađanima, Fincima, Norvežanima, Holanđanima.....oni su previše udaljeni da bi shvatili o čemu je riječ. Ne bih se čudio da većina gore navedenih smatra da je Bosna leglo islamskog terorizma.
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Svemirski_Jebach
- Posts: 3929
- Joined: 13/08/2003 00:00
- Location: Tel Aviv
#124
dobra paralela to sa bosancima i cevapima, glavama i slicno.
A evo, "moji" amerikanci nikad ne jedu hamburgere, nisu debeli i pametni su..iako neki nisu posebno obrazovani.
Ne sporim, invazija na irak je velika tragedija. Ali tvrdim amerikanci su imali hrabrosti sebi priznati da su se zajebali.
A evo, "moji" amerikanci nikad ne jedu hamburgere, nisu debeli i pametni su..iako neki nisu posebno obrazovani.
Ne sporim, invazija na irak je velika tragedija. Ali tvrdim amerikanci su imali hrabrosti sebi priznati da su se zajebali.