Novi korona virus - velika opasnost ili ne ? POGLEDATI PRVI POST!

[Mogy87]

@Mogy87 Radije cu rizikovati borbu protiv jakog imuniteta nego borbu sa bilo cim slabim imunitetom..

I ja tebi zelim sve najbolje u borbi sa oslabljenim imunitetom..

Pogresno si me razumio. Nije se ovo odnosilo na tebe vec opcenito.

[AmirBaa]

Na temama o teorijama zavjere je glavni argument "slusajte nauku i strucnjaci najbolje znaju" a onda kad Lauc ili Radman, inace svjetski priznati strucnjaci, kazu nesto, dignu se forumske krtice koje se prave da sve znaju i kazu da lazu ti strucnjaci. Pa dobro jebem ga ja hocemo se odlučiti?

[Mogy87]

Na temama o teorijama zavjere je glavni argument "slusajte nauku i strucnjaci najbolje znaju" a onda kad Lauc ili Radman, inace svjetski priznati strucnjaci, kazu nesto, dignu se forumske krtice koje se prave da sve znaju i kazu da lazu ti strucnjaci. Pa dobro jebem ga ja hocemo se odlučiti?

Samo sto "slusajte nauku" znaci slusajte sta kazu naucna istrazivanja koja su recenzirana i potvrdjena od strane drugih strucnjaka, a ne slusajte jer je neko Lauc, Radman, Drosten ili slicno.

[AmirBaa]

Na temama o teorijama zavjere je glavni argument "slusajte nauku i strucnjaci najbolje znaju" a onda kad Lauc ili Radman, inace svjetski priznati strucnjaci, kazu nesto, dignu se forumske krtice koje se prave da sve znaju i kazu da lazu ti strucnjaci. Pa dobro jebem ga ja hocemo se odlučiti?

Samo sto "slusajte nauku" znaci slusajte sta kazu naucna istrazivanja koja su recenzirana i potvrdjena od strane drugih strucnjaka, a ne slusajte jer je neko Lauc, Radman, Drosten ili slicno.

Dobro, 175 naucnih istraživanja je dokazalo da su šanse da ja umrem od ovog virusa manje od 0.1%. Sto se i dokazalo tacnim. I sto da ne vjerujem Radmanu i Laucu kad oni govore upravo o tome?

[Mogy87]

Na temama o teorijama zavjere je glavni argument "slusajte nauku i strucnjaci najbolje znaju" a onda kad Lauc ili Radman, inace svjetski priznati strucnjaci, kazu nesto, dignu se forumske krtice koje se prave da sve znaju i kazu da lazu ti strucnjaci. Pa dobro jebem ga ja hocemo se odlučiti?

Samo sto "slusajte nauku" znaci slusajte sta kazu naucna istrazivanja koja su recenzirana i potvrdjena od strane drugih strucnjaka, a ne slusajte jer je neko Lauc, Radman, Drosten ili slicno.

Dobro, 175 naucnih istraživanja je dokazalo da su šanse da ja umrem od ovog virusa manje od 0.1%. Sto se i dokazalo tacnim. I sto da ne vjerujem Radmanu i Laucu kad oni govore upravo o tome?

Zaboravljas da je to do 40. Sta cemo sa starijim?

[AmirBaa]

Samo sto "slusajte nauku" znaci slusajte sta kazu naucna istrazivanja koja su recenzirana i potvrdjena od strane drugih strucnjaka, a ne slusajte jer je neko Lauc, Radman, Drosten ili slicno.

Dobro, 175 naucnih istraživanja je dokazalo da su šanse da ja umrem od ovog virusa manje od 0.1%. Sto se i dokazalo tacnim. I sto da ne vjerujem Radmanu i Laucu kad oni govore upravo o tome?

Zaboravljas da je to do 40. Sta cemo sa starijim?

To ne trebamo ni ti ni ja odluciti jer nismo strucni. A ako su kineske represivne diktatorske mjere za sviju sve sto sto mogu uraditi da spase ove preko 70 godina, onda i ja mogu takve "strucne" odluke donositi.

[Naslovnica]

Na temama o teorijama zavjere je glavni argument "slusajte nauku i strucnjaci najbolje znaju" a onda kad Lauc ili Radman, inace svjetski priznati strucnjaci, kazu nesto, dignu se forumske krtice koje se prave da sve znaju i kazu da lazu ti strucnjaci. Pa dobro jebem ga ja hocemo se odlučiti?

Samo sto "slusajte nauku" znaci slusajte sta kazu naucna istrazivanja koja su recenzirana i potvrdjena od strane drugih strucnjaka, a ne slusajte jer je neko Lauc, Radman, Drosten ili slicno.

Dobro, 175 naucnih istraživanja je dokazalo da su šanse da ja umrem od ovog virusa manje od 0.1%. Sto se i dokazalo tacnim. I sto da ne vjerujem Radmanu i Laucu kad oni govore upravo o tome?

U ovim situacijama uvijek volim ponoviti da, kada bih imao 0.1% šansu da dobijem na lutriji - igrao bih svaki put!

[Prebranac2]

Upravo ti do 40godina su poprilicno nezainteresovani za ovaj virus. Ne mozes mladosti reci da sjedi kuci da ne ide u kafanu na trening koncert utakmicu ... mladi su u ratu izlazili trenirali nalazili nacine da se zabave a sada se neko kao cudi kako su mladi neodgovorni. Nije to ni neodgovornost ni bezobrazluk to je tako i tacka. Pusti na jedan dan stadione koncerte kafane sve bi krcato bilo. Restriktivne mjere kako sam upratio samo veci revolt kod naroda izazivaju.

Sto se tice virusa to treba ostaviti struci jer se o ovom virusu jos uvijek skoro nista ne zna.

[splinter]

Ima li i jedan strucnjak da je forumasima prihvatljiv???

Npr ovaj gospodin. Prof dr.sc. Zlatko Trabonjača

https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/mozaik/ziv ... ak-1057166

Dosta je dosljedan u svojim stavovima, ne mijenja ih ko čarape. Vrijedi ga nekad pročitati.

[banjaluka078]

We now have the best answer yet to a crucial, lingering question about COVID-19: how long immunity lasts.

New research suggests that recovered coronavirus patients likely have a robust immune memory that persists for at least eight months.

This memory relies on more than just antibodies; it also involves white blood cells known as T cells and B cells that have impressive powers of recollection.

Combined, these layers of protection enable the immune system to recognise and re-attack the coronavirus should it ever invade again, thereby preventing another infection.

To assess how long immunity to the virus lasts across these various layers of the immune system, scientists measured how many and what types of immune cells recovered coronavirus patients had months after they got sick.

Their research, though not yet peer-reviewed, offers hope that those who've already gotten infected likely won't be ill again for quite some time.

"Most people are making most parts of the immune response to this virus, and those parts are still around six to eight months later," Shane Crotty, a virologist at La Jolla Institute for Immunology in California and a co-author of the study, told Business Insider. "That looks like generally good news for having protective immunity."
While antibodies wane, T cells and B cells persist

Some research has suggested that coronavirus antibodies blood proteins that protect the body from subsequent infection fade within a few months.

But concerns about those findings can discount the role of killer T cells, which identify and destroy infected cells, as well as helper T cells that inform B cells about how to craft new antibodies.

"All of those elements are designed to work together: If in any given person one's not so great, the other arms of the immune system can compensate. So it makes sense to measure everything," Crotty said.

So his group measured both types of T cells, as well as B cells and antibodies, in blood samples from 185 people who'd recovered from COVID-19.

Nearly 40 of the participants gave blood multiple times, some more than six months after their illness. This enabled the researchers to assess how patients' immune responses changed over time.

Their results showed that patients' levels of coronavirus-specific T cells declined slightly between four and six months, then held steady after that. The researchers think it's likely that lT cells and antibodies stay consistent after that six-month mark, since that's typical of other viruses.

"It takes one to two weeks for antibodies and T cell responses to develop after an infection. Those then increase and peak," Alessandro Sette, an immunologist at La Jolla and Crotty's coauthor, told Business Insider. "Between four and six months they go down, and then tend to plateau out around six months.

"What you see at six to eight months is what you get in terms of immune response, so that's when you want to look for any indication whether you have developed a memory or not."

The study results also indicated that patients' B cell levels increased between the one-month and six-month marks. That's especially good, Sette explained, since B cells are the source of future antibodies.

"Once the initial viral invasion is gone, B cells will stop fighting, stop making antibodies," he said. "But they're still there if the attack resumes: If you have an expanding army of B cells circulating in the body, that would regenerate a antibody response."

Antibodies, however, declined measurably by the six-month mark, according to the study. But Crotty said that decline is "quite reasonable for any infection" and not on its own a reason to be concerned.
Coronavirus-targeting T cells could last for years

Sette and Crotty could only look at recovered coronavirus patients eight months post-infection, since the pandemic began about a year ago. But they think the slow rate of decline in patients' T cell and B cell counts means those cells will last far longer than the time period analysed in the study.

"The immune responses are following the expected playbook, and they're stable over at least eight months," Sette said, adding that "the trajectory doesn't indicate they're going to crash at eight months and one day."

White blood cells developed in response to other viruses can stick around for years. T cells specific to smallpox, for example, take about 10 years to disappear after an infection, while B cells for that virus stick around for 60 years.

T cells specific to SARS, another coronavirus that shares 80 percent of its genetic code with this new one, also seem to stick around long-term.

A July study looked for T cells in blood samples from 23 people who survived SARS. Sure enough, those survivors still had SARS-specific memory T cells 17 years after getting sick.
A small number of patients had 'weak immune memory'

Crotty's study found that about 90 percent of people develop robust immunity to the coronavirus undergirded by antibodies, T cells, and B cells. But not everyone developed all three immune elements to the same degree, and a small subsection of participants developed only some, or none, of them.

Those patients seem to have "quite weak immune memory," Crotty said, so could be susceptible to reinfection relatively quickly.

"You really want to have the whole orchestra of the immune system coming together to defeat the virus," Sette said.

The reason for this person-to-person variation isn't clear, but the study authors found that patients who fared better during their bout of COVID-19 had multiple types immune cells working for them. Those who fared poorly had one or less.

But until scientists have more time to study the virus, Sette and Crotty said, there won't be a way to predict how long a given person's coronavirus immunity will last after they're infected.

"There's just no way to do quick blood test to say you're going to have immune memory for 10 years," Crotty said. "So we'll just have to wait and see."

[AmirBaa]

We now have the best answer yet to a crucial, lingering question about COVID-19: how long immunity lasts.

New research suggests that recovered coronavirus patients likely have a robust immune memory that persists for at least eight months.

This memory relies on more than just antibodies; it also involves white blood cells known as T cells and B cells that have impressive powers of recollection.

Combined, these layers of protection enable the immune system to recognise and re-attack the coronavirus should it ever invade again, thereby preventing another infection.

To assess how long immunity to the virus lasts across these various layers of the immune system, scientists measured how many and what types of immune cells recovered coronavirus patients had months after they got sick.

Their research, though not yet peer-reviewed, offers hope that those who've already gotten infected likely won't be ill again for quite some time.

"Most people are making most parts of the immune response to this virus, and those parts are still around six to eight months later," Shane Crotty, a virologist at La Jolla Institute for Immunology in California and a co-author of the study, told Business Insider. "That looks like generally good news for having protective immunity."
While antibodies wane, T cells and B cells persist

Some research has suggested that coronavirus antibodies blood proteins that protect the body from subsequent infection fade within a few months.

But concerns about those findings can discount the role of killer T cells, which identify and destroy infected cells, as well as helper T cells that inform B cells about how to craft new antibodies.

"All of those elements are designed to work together: If in any given person one's not so great, the other arms of the immune system can compensate. So it makes sense to measure everything," Crotty said.

So his group measured both types of T cells, as well as B cells and antibodies, in blood samples from 185 people who'd recovered from COVID-19.

Nearly 40 of the participants gave blood multiple times, some more than six months after their illness. This enabled the researchers to assess how patients' immune responses changed over time.

Their results showed that patients' levels of coronavirus-specific T cells declined slightly between four and six months, then held steady after that. The researchers think it's likely that lT cells and antibodies stay consistent after that six-month mark, since that's typical of other viruses.

"It takes one to two weeks for antibodies and T cell responses to develop after an infection. Those then increase and peak," Alessandro Sette, an immunologist at La Jolla and Crotty's coauthor, told Business Insider. "Between four and six months they go down, and then tend to plateau out around six months.

"What you see at six to eight months is what you get in terms of immune response, so that's when you want to look for any indication whether you have developed a memory or not."

The study results also indicated that patients' B cell levels increased between the one-month and six-month marks. That's especially good, Sette explained, since B cells are the source of future antibodies.

"Once the initial viral invasion is gone, B cells will stop fighting, stop making antibodies," he said. "But they're still there if the attack resumes: If you have an expanding army of B cells circulating in the body, that would regenerate a antibody response."

Antibodies, however, declined measurably by the six-month mark, according to the study. But Crotty said that decline is "quite reasonable for any infection" and not on its own a reason to be concerned.
Coronavirus-targeting T cells could last for years

Sette and Crotty could only look at recovered coronavirus patients eight months post-infection, since the pandemic began about a year ago. But they think the slow rate of decline in patients' T cell and B cell counts means those cells will last far longer than the time period analysed in the study.

"The immune responses are following the expected playbook, and they're stable over at least eight months," Sette said, adding that "the trajectory doesn't indicate they're going to crash at eight months and one day."

White blood cells developed in response to other viruses can stick around for years. T cells specific to smallpox, for example, take about 10 years to disappear after an infection, while B cells for that virus stick around for 60 years.

T cells specific to SARS, another coronavirus that shares 80 percent of its genetic code with this new one, also seem to stick around long-term.

A July study looked for T cells in blood samples from 23 people who survived SARS. Sure enough, those survivors still had SARS-specific memory T cells 17 years after getting sick.
A small number of patients had 'weak immune memory'

Crotty's study found that about 90 percent of people develop robust immunity to the coronavirus undergirded by antibodies, T cells, and B cells. But not everyone developed all three immune elements to the same degree, and a small subsection of participants developed only some, or none, of them.

Those patients seem to have "quite weak immune memory," Crotty said, so could be susceptible to reinfection relatively quickly.

"You really want to have the whole orchestra of the immune system coming together to defeat the virus," Sette said.

The reason for this person-to-person variation isn't clear, but the study authors found that patients who fared better during their bout of COVID-19 had multiple types immune cells working for them. Those who fared poorly had one or less.

But until scientists have more time to study the virus, Sette and Crotty said, there won't be a way to predict how long a given person's coronavirus immunity will last after they're infected.

"There's just no way to do quick blood test to say you're going to have immune memory for 10 years," Crotty said. "So we'll just have to wait and see."

Odlicno! Super vijesti!

[Lao Ce]

Ima li i jedan strucnjak da je forumasima prihvatljiv???

Npr ovaj gospodin. Prof dr.sc. Zlatko Trabonjača

https://slobodnadalmacija.hr/mozaik/ziv ... ak-1057166

Dosta je dosljedan u svojim stavovima, ne mijenja ih ko čarape. Vrijedi ga nekad pročitati.

Šta to znači da čovjek ne može promijeniti mišljenje?
Valjda bi tako nešto trebalo biti normalno u 'naučnim' krugovima. Ili treba da ostanemo na znanju od prije? Koliko su puta samo promijenje čarape tokom ove plaNdemije od strane 'naučne' zajednice da to ispada kao Monti Pajton. Čas jedan lijek pomaže, čas odmaže, čas ovo, čas ono. LZN

[escobar__]

Sto se tice virusa to treba ostaviti struci jer se o ovom virusu jos uvijek skoro nista ne zna.

Očito da se dovoljno zna čim rade vakcinu za njega - problem je što se to što se zna ne prenosi ljudima ili se ne prenosi dovoljno. Zato po Facebooku cvjetaju teorije zavjere, a iste se s Facebooka masovno šire među narod. Osim standardne zatucanosti našeg prosječnog stanovnika koji vrijeme provodi ha u nargila baru, ha u kladari, problem su i mediji koji pumpaju crnilo i negativu dovodeći ionako sluđen narod do posebnih stadija ludila.

Također, tu je more nelogičnosti koje bukvalno niko ne može objasnit. Danas sam npr. pominjao slučaj Slovenije koja je haman mjesec dana u lockdownu i gdje brojke nisu nešto Bog zna previše pale, a broj aktivnih slučajeva se tek malo umanjio, a umanjio se i u našoj zemlji bez lockdowna. I kako će to neko bilo kome objasnit na neki racionalan način?

Kako objasnit to da Kina zvanično ima manje slučajeva od Bosne i Hercegovine - hej, Kina sa milijardu i po' ljudi i Bosna i Hercegovina sa cca. 3 miliona!? Mnogi će reći da Kinezi lažu, okej, lažu, slažem se, no ko onda garantuje da ne lažu naši pumpajući brojku?

Švedska početkom pandemije imala poprilično relaksirane mjere u poređenju s nama i u takvim bih okolnostima logično očekivao da je virus stigao do više ljudi koji su razvili kakav-takav imunitet na njega, pa bi u konačnici opet logično bilo očekivati da će ih ovaj famozni drugi val lakše pritisnuti nego npr. nas - ali jok, i Švede pokosilo kao i čitavu Evropu. Dakle ha imali mjere, ha ih nemali u konačnici opet isto. Pa kako mater mu jebem i virus, kakav je to virus!?

More je takvih nelogičnih stvari, a to što niko nema odgovor na njih je odlično i plodno tlo za antivaksere i ekipu da melju i 5G mreži, Bill Gatesu, čipovanju i šta već...

[Lincoln-Burrows]

Ne pomažu te mjere očito jer onaj ko se pridržava mjera ne treba nikakva zatvaranja.
Problem je kad ti neko sa stadijem grlobolje dođe kraj tebe i priča li priča s tobom i niti te
ne upozori da ga muči grlobolja. Nikakva tu mjera ne pomaže, možeš imati 100% lockdown.

[spreca]

Nije lose poslusati ovog izvjesnog gospodina

[AmirBaa]

Nije lose poslusati ovog izvjesnog gospodina

Davno su ga forumski strucnjaci proglasili budalom, tako daa...

[escobar__]

Ovdje obično svako mišljenje koje nije u skladu s mainstreamom odbace, a onog koji ga iznese proglase ludakom i budalom. Nije bitno je li to pričao lokalna radnica na kiosku ili epidemiolog i ljekar, nema prostora za drukčije mišljenje jer su takvi odmah teoretičari zavjera i opasnost za javno zdravlje.

[splinter]

Mislim da je ovo posljednja pandemija koja je "tretirana" na ovaj način.
Općenito postojeći zdravstveni sistemi širom svijeta sa izuzetkom par zemalja nisu uređeni za borbu protiv pandemija. Ovo sve je pokazalo da pojava virusa sa velikim pandemijskim potencijalom i u ovom slučaju relativno niskom stopom smrtnosti ali ne i zanemarlljvom, ne može biti zaustavljena bez obzira na sve poduzete mjere.
Eventualna pojava virusa sličnog pandemijskog potencijala sa recimo CFR oko 10% a da ne kažem više imalo bi razorne posljedice po čovječanstvo.
Ubuduće će se razvijati vjerojatno potpuno drukčija strategija sa dosta fleksibilnijim pristupom i mnogo većom smrtnosti. Što je u neku i prirodan slijed događaja. Na kraju šta god da se desi , prije ili kasnije život će se nastaviti i krenuti dalje . . .

https://www.index.hr/mobile/clanak.aspx ... id=2234611

"Kako je koronavirus razotkrio europske slabosti
Index Vijesti, S.M."

Upravo o ovome sam jutros pisao.
Također nekad ljetos sam pisao o organizaciji zdravstva u Lombardiji i pogrešnom pristupu koji je i pored velikih izdvajanja bio potpuno beskoristan u početku pandemije.

[Mogy87]

@escobar__ iz grafika ispod je jesno vidljivo da lockdown funkcionise u gotovo svim evropskim drzavama osim u Sloveniji. E ako pali kod sviju osim kod tebe, problem je valjda u tebi. Slovenija je negdje kiksala u implementaciji jos ne znaju gdje.

[meridiyan]

A sta sada?

Četiri njemačka turista koji su u Portugalu ilegalno stavljeni u karantenu nakon što je jedan od njih ocijenjen pozitivnim na virus Covid-19 izborili su pravno svoj slučaj: presuda kojom se široko korišteni PCR test za testiranje na koronavirus proglašuje nepouzdanim čak do 97 posto.

Ranije ovog mjeseca portugalski suci potvrdili su odluku nižeg suda kojom je prisilna karantena četvorice turista utvrđena nezakonitom. Slučaj se usredotočio na pouzdanost (ili nedostatak) PCR testova za virus Covid-19, piše rt.com.

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/507937-covid-pcr-test-fail/

[Mogy87]

Nije lose poslusati ovog izvjesnog gospodina

Osim sto kaze da je smrtnost ista kao i prethodnih godina, a gle cuda 200K dodatno umrlih sirom Evrope.

Razumijem ja da se vama dopada sta on prica, ali to jednostavno nije istina.

[spreca]

Nije lose poslusati ovog izvjesnog gospodina

Osim sto kaze da je smrtnost ista kao i prethodnih godina, a gle cuda 200K dodatno umrlih sirom Evrope.

Razumijem ja da se vama dopada sta on prica, ali to jednostavno nije istina.

Sto se tice broja oboljelih ,mozda su cifre zanizene ili zavisene a isto tako i broj umrlih.Mi sada imamo to sto nam vlast servira.Ne negiram i mislim da je dosta opasna za onoga ko oboli,u mom komsiluku su umrla dva mlada covjeka.Ja sam za to da se cuje vise misljenja raznih.Interesantno je njegovo misljenje u vezi obavezne vakcinacije, gdje je on protiv on je vise za dobrovoljnu vakcinaciju, i kako on kaze zasto bise neko koje se vakcinisao ,bojao onoga ko se nije vakcinisao.I sam kaze kakva je to vakcina kad se vakcinisani boje onih koji to odbijaju, jer normalno bi bilo da vakcina zastiti one koji su vakcinisani

[Mogy87]

Nije lose poslusati ovog izvjesnog gospodina

Osim sto kaze da je smrtnost ista kao i prethodnih godina, a gle cuda 200K dodatno umrlih sirom Evrope.

Razumijem ja da se vama dopada sta on prica, ali to jednostavno nije istina.

Sto se tice broja oboljelih ,mozda su cifre zanizene ili zavisene a isto tako i broj umrlih.Mi sada imamo to sto nam vlast servira.Ne negiram i mislim da je dosta opasna za onoga ko oboli,u mom komsiluku su umrla dva mlada covjeka.Ja sam za to da se cuje vise misljenja raznih.Interesantno je njegovo misljenje u vezi obavezne vakcinacije, gdje je on protiv on je vise za dobrovoljnu vakcinaciju, i kako on kaze zasto bise neko koje se vakcinisao ,bojao onoga ko se nije vakcinisao.I sam kaze kakva je to vakcina kad se vakcinisani boje onih koji to odbijaju, jer normalno bi bilo da vakcina zastiti one koji su vakcinisani

Znaci vlast u EU i ljekari iz tih zamalja zajedno sa statisticarima nam mozda nesto serviraju?
Usput uzrok smrti nema veze sa grafikonom koji sam postavila koji pokazuje da je 200 hiljada dodatno umrlih osoba u zemljama Evrope. Ne navodi od kog uzroka.
Moze gospodin imati misljenje vezano za npr. vakcinaciju i tu se slazem s njim. Ne treba biti obavezna kao ni za gripu sto nije. Svi smo odrasli ljudi i trebamo odluciti za sebe.
Ne moze imati "misljenje" o broju umrlih jer za to postoje statisticki podaci koji su cinjenuce. A cinjenica je da broj preminulih u zemljama Evrope veci za 200 hiljada u odnosu na proslu godinu. A dr. Radman kaze da je isti.

[cerasus]

Ja svo vrijeme pratim Nenada Bakica. Uzgred, dobro vece.

[biglebovski]

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

U razvijenim zemljama sa grafa, u periodu od 51 sedmice 2017-te do 11 sedmice 2018-e je ukupno umrlo 816.196 osoba svih dobnih skupina u tih 13 sedmica . U 13 sedmica 2020-e, od 8-e zaključno sa 20-tom, u periodu najveće opasnosti za čovječanstvo kako se tretira ovaj virus, je umrlo 855.433 ljudi svih dobnih skupina.

A niko ni a ni be, life as usual u 2018.