Danasnji "feminizam"

Rasprave na razne teme... Ako ne znate gdje poslati poruku, pošaljite je ovdje.

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Niemand
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#11101 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Niemand »

Naravno da jes za teme, i simone de beauvoir veli one is not born but rather becomes a woman, a i ono, to su samo rodne uloge i drustveno konstruisano.

Nego, nesto u feministickoj svedskoj haman i ne zele postati zene. Od prije par mjeseci:
For several days this week the veteran Swedish journalist Malou von Sivers will cover the same topic in every episode of her nightly TV chat show: the extraordinary rise in diagnoses of gender dysphoria among teenage klix.

Lukas Romson, an equality consultant and one of the country’s leading trans activists, is prepared for the worst. “There will be no serious trans activists in the show, because none of us trusts Malou at all,” he says. “I’m afraid she’ll just use us.”

But the fact that a mainstream programme is devoting so much time to the issue demonstrates just how much the debate has shifted in Sweden over the past year. “It’s been a very big change and very sudden,” Romson adds. “Everyone – but especially young people – feels worse because of what they perceive as the media’s hatred of them.”

The immediate trigger for Von Sivers’s themed week is a report from Sweden’s Board of Health and Welfare which confirmed a 1,500% rise between 2008 and 2018 in gender dysphoria diagnoses among 13- to 17-year-olds born as klix.

But it also reflects a rapid change in public opinion. Just a year ago, there seemed few official obstacles left in the way of young people who wanted gender reassignment treatment.

In the autumn of 2018, the Social Democrat-led government, under pressure from the gay, lesbian and transgender group RFSL, proposed a new law which would reduce the minimum age for sex reassignment medical care from 18 to 15, remove all need for parental consent, and allow children as young as 12 to change their legal gender.

Then in March last year, the backlash started. Christopher Gillberg, a psychiatrist at Gothenburg’s Sahlgrenska Academy, wrote an article in the Svenska Dagbladet newspaper warning that hormone treatment and surgery on children was “a big experiment” which risked becoming one of the country’s worst medical scandals.

In April, Uppdrag Granskning, an investigative TV programme, followed up with a documentary profiling a former trans man, Sametti, who regretted her irreversible treatment.

In October, the programme turned its fire on the team at Stockholm’s Karolinska University hospital, which specialises in treating minors with gender dysphoria. The unit has been criticised for carrying out double mastectomies on children as young as 14, and accused of rushing through treatment and failing to consider adequately whether patients’ other psychiatric or developmental issues might better explain their unhappiness with their bodies. The Karolinska disputed the claim, saying it carefully assessed each case.

At the same time, Filter magazine profiled the case of Jennifer Ring, a 32-year-old trans woman who hanged herself four years after her surgery. An expert on psychosis who was shown her medical journal by her father, Avi Ring, was quoted as saying that she had shown clear signs of psychosis at the time she first sought treatment for gender dysphoria.

Indeed, the first clinic she approached refused to treat her, citing signs of schizotypal symptoms and lack of a history of gender dysphoria. But the team at Karolinska went ahead. “Karolinska don’t stop anyone; virtually 100% get sex reassignment,” says Ring.

Sweden’s authorities are starting to respond. Shortly before the bill that would have lowered the sex reassignment minimum age was due to be debated in parliament in September, it was shelved, and the Board of Health and Welfare was ordered to reassess the evidence. Its report is due on 31 March.

After being interviewed on Uppdrag Granskning, Sweden’s health minister, Lena Hallengren, asked the programme to include a text addendum to remind viewers that it had been her predecessor, and not her, who had drafted the controversial law.

On 20 December, the Swedish Agency for Health Technology Assessment, which the government had asked to review the scientific research into the recent surge in teenagers reporting gender dysphoria, reported that there was very little research either into the reason for the increase or the risks or benefits of hormone treatment and surgery.

For Romson this is a worrying turn of events. He blames Gender Identity Challenge Scandinavia (Genid), a parents’ group set up by Ring, a retired professor of neurophysiology, the Swedish toxicologist Karin Svens and the Norwegian teacher Marit Rønstad, for the change in the debate, contrasting these “so-called concerned parents”, some of whom he points out have adult transgender children who should be allowed to speak and decide for themselves, with “real parents” who affirm their children’s chosen identities. Svens was the only Swedish parent to speak openly on Uppdrag Granskning about how her trans son announced he was a boy when he was 17, started going to Karolinska’s adult clinic when he turned 18, and now identifies as male. When asked about Jennifer Ring, he says that friends of hers have told him she found it difficult that her family were unwilling to accept her as a trans woman.

“When I started questioning this some years ago, I thought I was alone,” says Svens. “They tried to scare me by repeatedly implying that there is a high risk of suicide, especially if the parents don’t agree. Now more and more parents have found the courage to question what the doctors say.”

The recent report from the Board of Health and Welfare also found that 32.4 percent of 13 to 17-year-olds with gender dysphoria registered at birth as women also had diagnoses for anxiety disorder, 28.9 percent had depression, 19.4 percent had ADHD, and 15.2 percent had autism.

Trans people often explain the higher levels of depression and anxiety by pointing to the difficult experience living in a body that clashes with their gender identity, particularly when many in society, often including parents and friends, do not accept their identity.

One of the most surprising changes has been the growing divisions between trans activists. While Romson warns that children will have even more anxiety because of the change in the debate, Aleksa Lundberg, a trans woman and longstanding activist, is backing the call for more research.

Last October she apologised for not having been sufficiently open about the depression she had felt after her operation. “I would probably not undergo corrective surgery if I had the same choice today,” she wrote. “And I want to apologise to those who perhaps needed to hear that story earlier.”

• This article was amended on 27 February 2020 to clarify that when Lukas Romson referred to “so-called concerned parents” he was noting that some have adult transgender children who should be able to choose their own gender identities. Romson’s job title has also been included.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... noses-soar
paladinka
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#11102 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by paladinka »

AleksoMKD wrote: 15/06/2020 13:35
Hakiz wrote: 13/06/2020 21:27
Hoćemo. Eno vijest o prestanku proizvodnje slatkiša jer je "rasistički". Neka dovoljno budala zagalami "prava itd", psiholozi se uplaše za posao i šalju djecu.

Što bih ja ostao bez posla ako budala, njegovi roditelji i zajednica koju ta budala ne interesuje nego je koristi za skupljanje bodova navaljuju da se igraju sa njegovim životom? Hoćeš tamo? Potpiši mi izjavu da me oslobađaš odgovornosti ako te pošaljem tamo i idi. Šta treba da dokazujem da sam profesionalno utvrdio da griješiš u odluci i time rizikujrm medijske i druge napade trans fundamentalista i propast prakse?

Draži mi je posao od tebe.

Ako si navalio, upropasti se. Ako nakon svega zažališ, ne obraćaj mi se, eno ti trans zajednice pa se njima žali.
:thumbup:

https://news.sky.com/story/hundreds-of- ... x-11827740

'Hundreds' of young trans people seeking help to return to original sex

U puno slucaja se radi o osobama koje imaju mentalne probleme a u isto tako velikom broju se radi o deci koja su zrtve "woke" roditelja i/ili okoline. Ne pomaze sto je LGBTQ+ pokret preuzet od strane psihopata i pedofila.

Trans dete je kao Isto bas jednostavna analiza . veganska macka, svi znamo ko donosi odluku.
paladinka
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#11103 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by paladinka »

Da nas se zaliti na nesto , zato.. kome smeta?
zposao
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#11104 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by zposao »

Bolest a ne smiješ reći da je čovjek bolestan. Što reče Hakiz, čuvaj posao, eto mu tamo nek radi od sebe šta hoće.
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DEMONIKA
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#11105 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by DEMONIKA »

AleksoMKD wrote: 15/06/2020 13:56
MarlboroGold wrote: 15/06/2020 13:48 :mrgreen:

Čudi me da se nijedna feministkinja nije javila da kaže kakve veze ova tema ima sa transrodnim osobama :mrgreen:
Ne smeju. Transrodne osobe su ugrozenije od zena i ne sme biti kritike :D

Image

Izraz lica kaze sve.
hehe meni je ovo kul, kakva šamarčina ženama i njihovoj priči o ravnopravnosti spolova :mrgreen:
muškarac sportista vs žena spotista u bilo kojoj disciplini, znamo tko dominira

neise, nekako mi izgleda da je utopija da svi imaju sva prava,
jer se u nekom tenutku prava jedne skupine izgube usljed prava druge skupine
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saint_mirad
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#11106 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by saint_mirad »

Izgube se, postoji hijerarhija opresije. JR je primer, ona je samo "obična" feministkinja, dok su iznad nje u piramidi transosobe.
Hakiz
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#11107 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Hakiz »

DEMONIKA wrote: 15/06/2020 23:56
muškarac sportista vs žena spotista u bilo kojoj disciplini, znamo tko dominira

Bilo kojoj?

Bilijar, curling, šah itd :evil:

Da, ima sportova i poslova koji zavise od mišićne mase itd i u njima muškarci dominiraju.

Ali, sportovi i poslovi u kojima granice mogućnosti ne postavlja priroda/biolgija, ko je tu u prednosti?

E, da, kako muškarci prolaze u sinhronom (sinhronizovanom) plivanju kada se uporede za ženama? :wink:
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DEMONIKA
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#11108 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by DEMONIKA »

Hakiz wrote: 16/06/2020 00:41
DEMONIKA wrote: 15/06/2020 23:56
muškarac sportista vs žena spotista u bilo kojoj disciplini, znamo tko dominira

Bilo kojoj?

Bilijar, curling, šah itd :evil:

Da, ima sportova i poslova koji zavise od mišićne mase itd i u njima muškarci dominiraju.

Ali, sportovi i poslovi u kojima granice mogućnosti ne postavlja priroda/biolgija, ko je tu u prednosti?

E, da, kako muškarci prolaze u sinhronom (sinhronizovanom) plivanju kada se uporede za ženama? :wink:
nije sport :mrgreen:
eto dodaj klikera (gdje su opet lošije :mrgreen: ), janjine kupusa i slanine, ettc
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DEMONIKA
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#11109 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by DEMONIKA »

stoga nema slobode i prava jer
hijerarhija opresije i opresija negiraju ista
da bi jedna grupa bila na vrhu, druge moraju biti na dnu
a svaka od njih želi svoja prava, bez obzira koliko će time ugrozii nečija druga prava
i tako dobijemo vrzino kolo
i ispis
ne treba meni ovo u ova doba noći, odoh kakve muzike pustit :mrgreen:
Niemand
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#11110 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Niemand »

To "kome smeta", najvise homoseksualcima zapravo, npr transzene sa penisom i bez optuzuju lezbejke da su transfobicne jer ne zele biti sa njima koje su jel zene, a lezbejke njih da su homofobicne i da ne prihvataju da njih privlace zene.

Al kad smo kod tog, bil vi ozenili il se udali za neku transgender osobu? Jer ono, ako su to sad zene i muskarci bas kao i svi drugi, zasto ne? Predrasude, transfobija ili? :eh:
Here’s the deal: it is not transphobic to decide that you don’t want to date a specific trans person based on your preferences in personality, hobbies, social beliefs, body type, etc. Consent is really cool, and believe me, no one wants to date you or fuck you, if you don’t want to date or fuck them. Trans people are not trying to force you to date us.

It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.

The transgender community is a massively diverse group with all kinds of body types, genital configurations, personalities, hobbies, and relationship styles. To categorically exclude all people from that group, who would otherwise align with your sexuality (trans men for a straight woman, trans women for a lesbian woman, etc.) is not only missing out on many potential connections you could have with people who you would otherwise have a wonderful time klix, but also reinforces the oppressive social system that says transgender women aren’t “really” women because they were assigned male at birth, and vice versa for trans men.
...
Trans women are women. Trans men are men. Non-binary people are whole and valid identities outside of our western colonialist sex and gender binary. Repeat this to yourself over and over. This is the root of all trans liberation.

I know attraction is complicated, and again, no one is saying you should be forced to date someone you’re not into. However, if you hold these transphobic attitudes, I invite you to examine in yourself why those beliefs are there and what you are really afraid of when you say you “won’t date trans people.”

Are you afraid of genitals you’re not familiar with? Some trans women have a penis, some don’t. Some trans men have a penis, some don’t. You can’t assume someone’s genitals based on their identity, and more so, you might be missing out on sex that’s fun and pleasurable just because you’re unable to see a penis as feminine or a vulva as masculine. How is my permanently attached strapon functionally any different than a cis woman’s detachable strapon?
...
Are you afraid of believing yourself to no longer be a lesbian or gay man? What does “lesbian” or gay mean to you? Does lesbian mean “loving women” or “loving vulvas”? By that logic, do you also see trans men as women because they have a vulva? That would also be an intensely transphobic assumption. Identity categories are only as useful as they are freeing you, not limiting your authentic desires and attraction. Plus, it’s possible to be a lesbian and date a trans woman and also be a trans woman who is a lesbian. When you are a woman, everything you have is a woman’s body part, including your cock (or clit, or ladycock, or click, etc).

I offer you these thoughts in order to challenge you to challenge yourself. I ask you these questions so that you can ask them of yourself when our transphobic culture refuses to acknowledge us in media, in sex ed, in public life, in history, in politics, and everywhere else.

The first step to dismantling transphobia is dismantling your own internalized transphobia. The second step is being honest and accountable to that process of growth in your allyship to help other cisgender people around you to grow with you.

*cis kao znaci da ti se poklapaju rod i spol, ili ti ga, da nisi trans.
https://medium.com/@QSE/when-you-say-i ... dcf59aca

Ja sam logicno, totalno transfobicna. :skoljka:

Od "mi samo zelimo zivjeti u miru ovakvi kakvi jesmo, ne namecemo nista i ne ugrozavamo nikog" dodjosmo do toga da zajebavaju i druzbu iz lgbt pokreta kamoli ostale.

Jer oni ne shvataju da je nemoguce postati suprotan spol ma koliko ti filozofirao i zonglirao genderima, moguce je izvrsiti operaciju koja ce djelimicno konstruisati ili bolje reci imitirati genitalije te dodati ili oduzeti neke fizicke osobine operacijama i hormonima. To sto mi tu iluziju tako nazivamo je druga stvar i vjerovatno je greska, i ja za tu operaciju kazem "postati zena il muskarac", a zapravo je prosto prilagodjavanje fizickom izgledu drugog spola plasticnim operacijama i pucanjem hormonima do kraja zivota da odrze tu iluziju. Mogu sa svim tim zahvatima imitirati muskarca ili zenu, mogu se nazivati i oslovljavati tako, ali oni nikada nece zbilja biti muskarac i zena. Izjednaciti ih sa zenama i muskarcima u svakom smislu i nakon operacije a kamoli bez je jednostavno van pameti. Jer oni to nisu i ne mogu biti.

Najsmijesnije, feministice i dalje svo zlo vide u patrijarhatu, biju nekakve bitke za ravnopravnost da bi ih bas vlastite teorije o ravnopravnosti kojekakvih gendera dovele do tog da uopste vise ne smiju reci da su zene te koje imaju menstruaciju. A to im nije uradio patrijarhat.
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saint_mirad
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#11111 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by saint_mirad »

and also be a trans woman who is a lesbian.
Ovo je str8 muškarac with extra steps. :skoljka:
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AleksoMKD
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#11112 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by AleksoMKD »

DEMONIKA wrote: 15/06/2020 23:56 hehe meni je ovo kul, kakva šamarčina ženama i njihovoj priči o ravnopravnosti spolova :mrgreen:
muškarac sportista vs žena spotista u bilo kojoj disciplini, znamo tko dominira

neise, nekako mi izgleda da je utopija da svi imaju sva prava,
jer se u nekom tenutku prava jedne skupine izgube usljed prava druge skupine
Decko se setio kako da uzme scholarship.

Normalno sada se zene ljute.

Bonus:
Image
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saint_mirad
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#11113 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by saint_mirad »

Mislim da je znacajno kod transzena kako izgledaju i kako se predstavljaju i da od toga dosta zavisi hocemo li ih ili ne prihvatiti kao zene. Ranije sam postao onu Blaire koja ima sve zenske features, i u 99% situacija ce se ljudi ophoditi prema njoj kao zeni i koristiti adekvatne zamenice. S druge strane, tesko je sebe naterati u nekoj ovakvoj situaciji da mislimo da je ova osoba ma'am. :-D
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MarlboroGold
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#11114 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by MarlboroGold »

Niemand wrote: 16/06/2020 06:44 Are you afraid of genitals you’re not familiar with? Some trans women have a penis, some don’t. Some trans men have a penis, some don’t. You can’t assume someone’s genitals based on their identity, and more so, you might be missing out on sex that’s fun and pleasurable just because you’re unable to see a penis as feminine or a vulva as masculine. How is my permanently attached strapon functionally any different than a cis woman’s detachable strapon?
Oj Zeuse... rekao bih svašta na ovo, ali suzdržaću se.

Cijeli komentar je klasično ispiranje mozga.
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MarlboroGold
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#11115 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by MarlboroGold »

AleksoMKD wrote: 16/06/2020 09:51
DEMONIKA wrote: 15/06/2020 23:56 hehe meni je ovo kul, kakva šamarčina ženama i njihovoj priči o ravnopravnosti spolova :mrgreen:
muškarac sportista vs žena spotista u bilo kojoj disciplini, znamo tko dominira

neise, nekako mi izgleda da je utopija da svi imaju sva prava,
jer se u nekom tenutku prava jedne skupine izgube usljed prava druge skupine
Decko se setio kako da uzme scholarship.

Normalno sada se zene ljute.

Bonus:
Image
Toga će biti sve više i više. Navratilova je prva upozoravala, pa su je sahranili u medijima i na društvenim mrežama.
Treba biti realan. Stvarno je žalosno vidjeti nešto kao na toj slici što si postavio. "Patrijarhat", a koji je inače trn u oku feministkinjama, je zapravo ovdje daleko više na strani žena nego feminizam.
Niemand
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#11116 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Niemand »

MarlboroGold wrote: 16/06/2020 10:27
Niemand wrote: 16/06/2020 06:44 Are you afraid of genitals you’re not familiar with? Some trans women have a penis, some don’t. Some trans men have a penis, some don’t. You can’t assume someone’s genitals based on their identity, and more so, you might be missing out on sex that’s fun and pleasurable just because you’re unable to see a penis as feminine or a vulva as masculine. How is my permanently attached strapon functionally any different than a cis woman’s detachable strapon?
Oj Zeuse... rekao bih svašta na ovo, ali suzdržaću se.

Cijeli komentar je klasično ispiranje mozga.
Meni je ovo ipak jace:
Many well-meaning allies, friends, and family members of transgender people will say things like: “Well, I’m glad that Sara is living her life out loud, but I just don’t think I could ever date a trans person. It’s just a really personal preference for me.”
These people, and many others in the world, feel that it’s okay if trans people want to be out and live their life as a woman, a man, or a non-binary person, but ultimately, they say that they are just “not attracted” to any transgender people. Before we talk about how that sentiment alone is transphobic... bla bla..
:-)
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Velkoski
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#11117 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Velkoski »

postoji l' šta da nije transphobic, homophobic i ostalophobic? :mrgreen:

malo je i termin "fobija" glup u ovom kontekstu svakako, ali je očigledno opšteprihvaćeni buzzword :mrgreen:
Niemand
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#11118 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Niemand »

It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.
:|
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hadzinicasa
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#11119 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by hadzinicasa »

Niemand wrote: 16/06/2020 11:42
It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.
:|
mislim da je ovo vise generalno u kontekstu predrasuda ovako napisano.
Hakiz
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#11120 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Hakiz »

Oni imaju pravo na svoje, ja imam pravo da mi se ne sviđa.

Šta sa odlukom da nikada ne budem sa osobom koja ima plavu kosu, je li to blondefobic?
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Velkoski
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#11121 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Velkoski »

a šta je ovdje predrasuda? je l' mi se to mora dići na transosobu da ne bih bio transphobic? izvinjam se onda što sam transfobičan! nemojte me na giljotinu samo!
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AleksoMKD
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#11122 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by AleksoMKD »

hadzinicasa wrote: 16/06/2020 11:55
Niemand wrote: 16/06/2020 11:42
It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.
:|
mislim da je ovo vise generalno u kontekstu predrasuda ovako napisano.
Da, ako strejt muskarac ne zeli uzeti penis trans zene u usta ili u dupe, on je transfob.
Niemand
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#11123 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Niemand »

hadzinicasa wrote: 16/06/2020 11:55
Niemand wrote: 16/06/2020 11:42
It is, however, deeply transphobic to decide that you never want to date any transgender person ever, and the choice to draw such a line is rooted in ignorance, fear, and disgust of trans people.
:|
mislim da je ovo vise generalno u kontekstu predrasuda ovako napisano.
Kako mislis?
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saint_mirad
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#11124 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by saint_mirad »

Transzene kontaju ako nece muskarci da se zabavljaju sa nijednom od njih ma kako da izgledaju, da ih zapravo i ne smatraju zenama.
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AleksoMKD
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#11125 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by AleksoMKD »

saint_mirad wrote: 16/06/2020 12:20 Transzene kontaju ako nece muskarci da se zabavljaju sa nijednom od njih ma kako da izgledaju, da ih zapravo i ne smatraju zenama.
Tacno, i u pravu su.
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