Donald J Trump - Predsjednik USA All About

[Chmoljo]

Dijalog se može voditi ako postoje određena pravila, odnosno, uvažavanje činjenica i argumenata.

Dijalog nije biznis lišen etike, gdje cilj opravdava sredstvo, a to trenutni POTUS nije u stanju svariti. A izgleda i neki njegovi sljedbenici. Dijalog nije nešto što se može kupiti ako imaš više novca. Dijalog nije marketing. Dijalog nije rijaliti šou gdje je cilj nabiti gledanost.

Lik sa hroničnim nedostatkom senzibiliteta, pored nedostatka svega ostalog, nije u stanju imati produktivan dijalog taman i da nije narcisoidni egomanijak opterećen veličinom svojih ruku.

[madner]

Dialog je prestao kada je nauka i rezon potisnuta ideologijom na kampusima. Svaka tacka gledista je jednako validna, samo je pitanje ko kojoj grupi pripada. Trump je odgovor na to, primjer zasto je to lose.

[MorningStar]

Dialog je prestao kada je nauka i rezon potisnuta ideologijom na kampusima. Svaka tacka gledista je jednako validna, samo je pitanje ko kojoj grupi pripada. Trump je odgovor na to, primjer zasto je to lose.

Probaj sasvim mirno i kulturno iznijeti misljenje da se ne slazes sa novim geneder trendovima, usvajanju djece od homoseksualnih parova, forsiranje rase, social justice itd. Ja sam nesto i ocu da me gladite zbog toga - see what happens.


Upravo sto sam prije spomenuo - trump je u sustini izraz revolta na trendove koji su teski za sazvakati velikom broju populacije a protiv istih se ne smije misljenje iznijeti.

[madner]

Dialog je prestao kada je nauka i rezon potisnuta ideologijom na kampusima. Svaka tacka gledista je jednako validna, samo je pitanje ko kojoj grupi pripada. Trump je odgovor na to, primjer zasto je to lose.

Probaj sasvim mirno i kulturno iznijeti misljenje da se ne slazes sa novim geneder trendovima, usvajanju djece od homoseksualnih parova, forsiranje rase, social justice itd. Ja sam nesto i ocu da me gladite zbog toga - see what happens.


Upravo sto sam prije spomenuo - trump je u sustini izraz revolta na trendove koji su teski za sazvakati velikom broju populacije a protiv istih se ne smije misljenje iznijeti.

Trump nije odgovor nego dio tog trenda. Ako je normalno da manjine razmisljaju plemenski, onda je on iskoristio taj impuls kod vecine. Samo nije mi LGBT, crnci, latini nego mi bjelci.

To se sada desava svugdje u svijetu, zbog nestanka klasicnih medija kod formiranja misljenja drustva imamo grupe koje zive u paralelnim svijetovima, slusaju svoje emisije i gledaju svoje vijesti.

[jeza u ledja]

Jasta, campusi su krivi za sve.

Pricamo o Trumpu, ne pricamo o drugim stvarima. Naravno da su stvari povezane i Trump je samo posljedica, ili simptom, sta vec, ali pricamo o njemu kao odgovoru na probleme o kojima se svakako moze razgovarati. U tome je stvar.

Ako hocete pricati o drugim stvarima, bujrum, pricalo se i pricace se.

[MorningStar]

Jasta, campusi su krivi za sve.

Pricamo o Trumpu, ne pricamo o drugim stvarima. Naravno da su stvari povezane i Trump je samo posljedica, ili simptom, sta vec, ali pricamo o njemu kao odgovoru na probleme o kojima se svakako moze razgovarati. U tome je stvar.

Ako hocete pricati o drugim stvarima, bujrum, pricalo se i pricace se.

Taj dio moze se razgovarati - realno probaj u javnom zivotu biti protiv lgbt uticaja, nelegalne imigracije , konstantnog naglasavanja kako su crnci ili native americans ili eskimi i nastavi niz ugrozeni ... onda i feminizam natakari tj. Ovu verziju “feminizma” koju guraju .... ko god je nesto tako javno progovorio razapet je iste sekunde po medijima.

[jeza u ledja]

Jasta, campusi su krivi za sve.

Pricamo o Trumpu, ne pricamo o drugim stvarima. Naravno da su stvari povezane i Trump je samo posljedica, ili simptom, sta vec, ali pricamo o njemu kao odgovoru na probleme o kojima se svakako moze razgovarati. U tome je stvar.

Ako hocete pricati o drugim stvarima, bujrum, pricalo se i pricace se.

Taj dio moze se razgovarati - realno probaj u javnom zivotu biti protiv lgbt uticaja, nelegalne imigracije , konstantnog naglasavanja kako su crnci ili native americans ili eskimi i nastavi niz ugrozeni ... onda i feminizam natakari tj. Ovu verziju “feminizma” koju guraju .... ko god je nesto tako javno progovorio razapet je iste sekunde po medijima.

Nije tacno. Eno Fox News se satra palamudeci
o tim stvarima na isti takav nacin. Ubjedljivo najpopularniji medij.

[madner]

Pa svako misli da je njegova grupa ugrozena.


Problem je sto se argumenti svode na grupe. A to jeste problem zapadne filozofije od 70ih godina.

[muhafuca]

Nije tacno. Eno Fox News se satra palamudeci
o tim stvarima na isti takav nacin. Ubjedljivo najpopularniji medij.

Fox je najpopularniji jer je jedini pro-Republiknska Stranka orjentisani mainstream TV kanal.

pro-Demokratska stranka TV mediji su CNN i MSNBC - da se oni spoje u jednu kucu parirali bi Fox-u

cista matematika.

[MorningStar]

Jasta, campusi su krivi za sve.

Pricamo o Trumpu, ne pricamo o drugim stvarima. Naravno da su stvari povezane i Trump je samo posljedica, ili simptom, sta vec, ali pricamo o njemu kao odgovoru na probleme o kojima se svakako moze razgovarati. U tome je stvar.

Ako hocete pricati o drugim stvarima, bujrum, pricalo se i pricace se.

Taj dio moze se razgovarati - realno probaj u javnom zivotu biti protiv lgbt uticaja, nelegalne imigracije , konstantnog naglasavanja kako su crnci ili native americans ili eskimi i nastavi niz ugrozeni ... onda i feminizam natakari tj. Ovu verziju “feminizma” koju guraju .... ko god je nesto tako javno progovorio razapet je iste sekunde po medijima.

Nije tacno. Eno Fox News se satra palamudeci
o tim stvarima na isti takav nacin. Ubjedljivo najpopularniji medij.

Sta demokrate plus cijeli pro-dem blok medija misli o njima ? A i oni sami nemaju gravitas copora koji skoci na neistomisljenike - samo se sjetim onih “skandala” oko border service-a kada su ih prozivali nacistima jer rade sto im je zakon propisao.

[ultima_palabra]

Fox je nesto kao SRNA 93.

[jeza u ledja]

Sta demokrate plus cijeli pro-dem blok medija misli o njima ? A i oni sami nemaju gravitas copora koji skoci na neistomisljenike - samo se sjetim onih “skandala” oko border service-a kada su ih prozivali nacistima jer rade sto im je zakon propisao.

Ne misle nista gore o njima nego sto je obrnuto. Napadaju jedni druge. Ne znam zasto ti je bitno sta misle “pro-dem” mediji?
Poenta je da nije tacno to sto si napisao.

[CikCikCikPogodi]

[omar little]

Impeachment Didn’t Change Minds — It Eroded Trust
The results from our three-month survey of 1,100 Americans

Before last year, Willa Engel, 65, had never thought of herself as an especially political person. But the impeachment process changed that. As the House Democrats’ investigation rolled forward through the late fall, she found herself glued to the television, watching witness after witness testify about President Trump’s behavior. “I got a little addicted to it,” she said. “I believe I watched about 90 percent of it.”

But there were moments in the hearings when Engel, a Democratic-leaning independent, got so upset she had to turn away. “Sometimes when the White House counsel or the Republicans were on TV, I had to mute it. It was too much,” she said. The hearings did convince Engel that Trump had committed an impeachable offense, but now that it’s over, she tries not to think about it. “I get so angry,” she said. “I try to block it out of my mind.”

For a little over three months, we tracked over 1,100 Americans on how they felt about the impeachment process, surveying respondents like Engel every few weeks via Ipsos’s KnowledgePanel to find out whether their views on impeachment were changing.1 But there was remarkably little movement. The share of Americans who thought Trump committed an impeachable offense hovered between 55 and 58 percent in six separate surveys.

Respondent after respondent told us that their belief of Trump’s innocence or guilt was just reinforced by the process. “The Democrats put up a flimsy case,” said Alan Satow, 60, a Republican. “They had all these witnesses, but they weren’t presenting facts. It was just a lot of hearsay.”

The impeachment process might not have shifted anyone’s view about Trump, but it did drive Americans further into their partisan camps — and in the process, unraveled their already frayed sense of trust in the political system. When we spoke to them after the Senate trial had concluded, our respondents had few kind words for either party. Instead, they saw impeachment as a stark and painful example of the country’s partisan stalemate.

“The way I see it is, we seem to be in a place where our politicians don’t really make decisions for themselves — they just say, ‘Well I belong to this party and so that’s how I’m going to vote,’” said Emily Underwood, 29, a Republican-leaning independent. “We’re divided. We’re stuck. I knew that before impeachment, but it’s even clearer to me now.”

Democrats worry impeachment will backfire
When news of Trump’s call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky hit the headlines in late September, Richard Scruggs, 31, had an inkling that the allegations against Trump were grave enough to be impeachable. But as the Democrats began to present their case against the president in a series of televised hearings in November, he grew even more certain that Trump had done something seriously wrong. (Scruggs said in our survey that he leans toward the Democrats.)

“The Trump presidency does a number on what seems normal,” said Scruggs. He wasn’t sure what to make of the allegations until he started to read about the lengths to which Trump’s allies had gone to strong-arm the Ukrainian government into probing the Bidens, including efforts to push out the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and the discussion of investigations in high-level meetings with Ukrainian and American diplomats. “The idea of putting pressure on foreign governments to investigate your rival seems kind of definitionally a high crime or misdemeanor,” said Scruggs.

Scruggs wasn’t alone. By November, when we fielded the first wave of our survey, 88 percent of Democrats said they were already convinced that Trump had committed an impeachable offense. That means many Democrats may already have had a change of heart on impeachment by the time our survey began, since according to our tracker of impeachment polls, the biggest shift among Democrats happened in late September, around the release of a call summary of Trump and Zelensky’s conversation.

John Stokes, 73, wasn’t fully on board with impeachment at first. But he said he was convinced by the Democrats’ argument that it was their responsibility to hold Trump accountable. And by the end of the process, he said it was clear to him that Trump had committed an impeachable offense. “[Trump] was trying to bribe a foreign country,” he said.

But even as Democrats in our survey became more convinced that Trump’s actions were impeachable, some also started to have nagging concerns that the impeachment process might have inadvertently helped Trump. Throughout the process, a small but substantial chunk of Democrats (around 13 percent) told us that even though they thought Trump had committed an impeachable offense, the voters — not Congress — should decide his fate in the 2020 election. The share of Democrats who thought impeachment was a bad use of Congress’s time rose, too, from 23 percent at the beginning of the Senate trial to 37 percent when it was over. After the trial, a smaller sharer of Democrats said that senators were impartial jurors than the share that thought senators would be impartial. And perhaps most crucially, 30 percent of Democrats thought in the last wave of our survey that impeachment was likely to help Trump win reelection — up from 12 percent just three weeks earlier.

Some panelists told us they thought impeachment was necessary, but they were also worried it might backfire at the polls in November. “I never felt impeachment was the right way to go because it wasn’t going to pass the Senate,” said Alan Simsovic, 62. “My biggest concern was that this was going to galvanize Trump supporters, and I do believe that’s what has happened.”

Others, like Maria Alleyne, 53, said they were alarmed that this could further embolden Trump. “This is not a man whose personality is to learn things and regret his actions,” she said. Instead, Alleyne told us, she thought he’d continue to act in the same way. And she also feared he would “be very vindictive” against the people who were part of the process and “just go after them as hard as he can.”

Republicans became more supportive of Trump
Democrats or Democratic-leaning voters like Simsovic weren’t wrong to worry that impeachment may have knit Trump’s Republican base more tightly to him. Our surveys showed that as impeachment wore on, rank-and-file Republicans did become more supportive of the president and of Republicans more broadly. And that’s saying something, because Republicans had a pretty high opinion of Trump going into the impeachment process. But by the end of the trial, 63 percent of Republicans approved of the way Trump was handling the impeachment process, compared with 51 percent back in November. Ordinary Republican voters also increasingly approved of the way Republicans in Congress handled impeachment as it played out.

Why did Republicans rally around Trump? Part of it may be that relatively few Republicans were ever convinced that Trump had committed an impeachable offense, and the impeachment process did little to change their minds. For instance, over the course of our survey, a majority of Republicans agreed that Trump did ask Zelensky to investigate the Bidens, but only about 25 to 30 percent said that they thought Trump had conditioned aid on those investigations or had tried to cover up his actions.

Glenn Bossmeyer, 71, thought the request to Zelensky had been handled clumsily, but he didn’t see a problem with Trump asking for a probe into Hunter Biden’s business relationships in Ukraine while his father was vice president. “It was a stupid thing to do, because it gave the Democrats more fodder to go after him,” Bossmeyer said. “But whether Hunter Biden ended up in his position because of his father’s influence — I thought it was a fair question to ask.”

Republicans growing more comfortable with Trump’s behavior wasn’t an obvious outcome — at least during the first couple of waves of our survey, when the Democrats publicly presented evidence against the president. For instance, the share of Republicans who believed Trump tied Ukraine’s aid to the investigations rose slightly after former EU ambassador Gordon Sondland explicitly linked Trump to a quid pro quo in public testimony in late November.

But ultimately, many Republicans accepted the argument that this kind of behavior was simply politics as usual and didn’t condemn Trump’s actions. The share of Republicans who said that it was inappropriate to condition aid on an investigation into the Bidens actually went down between November and February, as did the share of Republicans who said a cover-up would be inappropriate.

“It just didn’t come to much,” said Esra Sander, 46. She didn’t like the idea of heads of state trading favors for political leverage, she told us — but she saw it as a part of the dirty underbelly of politics that Trump, with his bull-in-a-china-shop tendencies, had simply exposed. “Has it happened before? Will it happen again? The answer to both is yes,” she said. “Under Trump it’s just more visible.”

People were left angered and disillusioned
There was one thing in our surveys that united ordinary Republicans and Democrats: a sense of anger that for four months, their elected leaders had relentlessly jabbed at the country’s gaping partisan wound. For some, it became exhausting to pick up their newspapers or turn on the TV each day. Very few of the respondents we talked with felt triumphant about how impeachment ended. Instead, they mostly thought the two parties had fought to a messy draw.

“The Democrats were bullies, but the Republicans were just as bad,” said Megon Burkit, 43, who identifies as a Republican. “They didn’t have a strong defense. I think everyone is blowing smoke up our butts.”

The price of this anger and disillusionment appears to have been a loss of trust in public institutions — Congress, the news media, the presidency, you name it. A majority (65 percent) of Americans said their level of trust in the American political system had decreased because of the impeachment process. “Democrats, Republicans — it’s starting to feel like nobody has ordinary working people’s interests at heart,” said Alleyne. (She said in our survey that she leans toward the Democrats.) “They’re not trying to help us. They’re just fighting. Nothing seems to be coming together.”

It also left both Republicans and Democrats with an even more bitter impression of their political rivals. By the time the trial was over, 71 percent of Republicans strongly disapproved of how Democrats in Congress were handling impeachment (approximately the same percentage as in November). Sixty-five percent of Democrats felt the same way about congressional Republicans, up from 49 percent in November.

People who identified as Republican or leaned Republican told us they thought the Democrats were mainly looking for a chance to score political points at Trump’s expense. “I just thought it was a publicity play by the Democrats, trying to grab the limelight,” said Robert Wehner, 70. Democrats, for their part, saw the Republicans as equally mercenary. “The way they lied, how their story kept changing — it’s disturbing,” said Evan Smith, 46. “I don’t know how they can look at themselves in the mirror in the morning.”

But there were also respondents who told us they felt lost in the increasingly vast no-man’s-land between the two parties. “It’s like there’s a war in Washington, one side against the other, and everyone has to toe the party line,” said Eric Boggis, 61, an independent who said he doesn’t lean toward either party. He doesn’t like Trump and said he didn’t vote for him in 2016. But he thought the Democrats’ efforts were a “long shot” and a waste of time, especially with the presidential election looming on the horizon. “[The Democrats] were never going to get rid of him through impeachment,” Boggis said. “Let the voters have their say, and he’ll probably be gone in a year anyway.”

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/im ... ded-trust/

[ultima_palabra]

Pomilovao Blagojevicha

Kako ono, lopov lopova uvijek osjeti

[GandalfSivi]

Just another week in America

[Irsar]

Još samo da CNN nije ništa drugo doli ljevičarsko propagandno smeće koje sa istinom se nije vidjelo zadnjih 10 godina barem...

[jeza u ledja]

Još samo da CNN nije ništa drugo doli ljevičarsko propagandno smeće koje sa istinom se nije vidjelo zadnjih 10 godina barem...

Prije 10 godina si ti crtane gledao.

[Irsar]

Zavisi koje crtane kolega, mada i prosječan crtić za predškolsku djecu sadrži više istina koje nastoji predočiti toj djeci, nego sveukupna produkcija laži CNNa i drugih ljevičarskih odrona zadnjih bar 10 godina, koji su židanje doveli do statusa obožavanja (za one koji ne znaju židanje = laganje bez imalo stida, osjećaja proporcije i osjećaja za istinu).

[Chmoljo]

Kad se samo sjetim one lažljive ljevičarske kurve Amanpur...

[muhafuca]

Još samo da CNN nije ništa drugo doli ljevičarsko propagandno smeće koje sa istinom se nije vidjelo zadnjih 10 godina barem...

Prije 10 godina si ti crtane gledao.

Jedva cekam da Bernie pobjedi (ako ih opet vodstvo Demokratske stranke na oci ne pokrade)

pa kad se i CNN i MSNBC pretvore u MEGA pro-Trump medije - ima FOXNews da bude umjerena struja

eno Chris Mathews vec pocinje pricu da bi "moderates" trebali odsjediti ove izbore,

pustiti Trump-a jos 4 godine a onda pokusati ponovo nekog Centristu kandidovati.

[Point.]

Zavisi koje crtane kolega, mada i prosječan crtić za predškolsku djecu sadrži više istina koje nastoji predočiti toj djeci, nego sveukupna produkcija laži CNNa i drugih ljevičarskih odrona zadnjih bar 10 godina, koji su židanje doveli do statusa obožavanja (za one koji ne znaju židanje = laganje bez imalo stida, osjećaja proporcije i osjećaja za istinu).

Odrasli ljudi koji su mentalno još u predškolskom stadiju i gotive ovo lažljivo narandžasto govno od čovjeka. Ti, koji podržava lika koji laže kad zine, se našao pisati o lažima.

Da ne povjeruješ.

[Capljina74]

Najavio potpisivanje sporazuma sa Talibanima.

[CPT]

Najavio potpisivanje sporazuma sa Talibanima.

Nema tu nikakvog sporazuma, radi se o predaji. Drzavu ce predati Talibanima. Nakon sto su zbog njih (kao) i krenuli u rat tj. rusenje drzave. Cijenu te predaje ce platiti svi oni koji su pomagali Amerikancima u toj borbi i svi oni koji ce tek trpjeti zbog Talibana. Veci broj izbjeglica u najavi...

Citav "plan" je kao iz filma Forresta Gumpa... Oni ce najaviti povlacenje, povuci dio snaga i onda organizovati intra-afganistanske dogovore (gdje ce Talibani sigurno imati jako motiv za kompromis).

[Capljina74]

Da, Vijetnam scenario.