Izraelski terorizam

bedrudin
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#26

Post by bedrudin » 10/11/2006 00:56

GandalfSivi wrote:Nesta sve kontam,
...a nista da skontas, pa ni to da nije rijec ni o kakvoj "muslimanskoj stvari" niti izjednacavanju jevreja sa cionistickim rezimom (to cionisti i zele), vec o osudi cionizma i cionistickog rezima koji se komotno moze iznositi sa nacizmom. svako ko u sebi ima i trun covjecnosti, ako ne nesto vise, bar ce osuditi tu bolesnu ideologiju i njene zlocine, iako od toga i nema neke koristi, jer cionisti ne priznaju ni ljudsko ni bozije. odvratni ste i ti i ovaj rajvosa^. fuj!


zzzzz
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#27

Post by zzzzz » 10/11/2006 01:44

GandalfSivi wrote:Nesta sve kontam, a ispravite me ako grijesim, Izrael je jedna od prvih drzava koje su podrzale BiH. Isto tako su bili poprilicno glasni sto se tice zaustavljanja srpske agresije na drzavu nam. Takodjer sam vise nego ponosan na veoooooooma dugu istoriju odlicnih odnosa sa jevrejskom zajednicom u BiH. I sada pored svih problema koje nam ima drzava, nadju se tako ti borci za "nasu" stvar u Palestini. Da se razumijemo, ni najmanje mi se ne svidja sta cini Izrael, ali tako jedno odvratno fasisoidno generaliziranje koje se moze vidjeti ovdje na forumu, ali i cuti medju ovim novopecenim borcima za muslimansku stvar je jos gore.

Ne znam ni zasto komentarisem ovakve gluposti, samo mi se pritisak dize...
Ja, i sta treba, da podrzavam jednu drugu republiku mrsku, da bi meni bilo bolje. Izrael je nastao na istim principima kao i manji entitet i zivo mi se hebe ko tamo zivi, muslimani, hindusi, marsovci ili jehovini svjedoci.

Vecina lijevo orijentisanih ljudi u svijetu smatra da je Izrael teroristicka drzava, eh sad bi mi to trebali presutiti jer smo muslimani, pa da neko ne bi pomislio da bas zbog toga imamo takve stavove :?

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Topla voda
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#28

Post by Topla voda » 10/11/2006 02:11

Ja, i sta treba, da podrzavam jednu drugu republiku mrsku, da bi meni bilo bolje. Izrael je nastao na istim principima kao i manji entitet i zivo mi se hebe ko tamo zivi, muslimani, hindusi, marsovci ili jehovini svjedoci.

Vecina lijevo orijentisanih ljudi u svijetu smatra da je Izrael teroristicka drzava, eh sad bi mi to trebali presutiti jer smo muslimani, pa da neko ne bi pomislio da bas zbog toga imamo takve stavove
Kako si ovo dobro reko,tebi fakat mozak sluzi da razmisljas,za pohvalu!

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GandalfSivi
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#29

Post by GandalfSivi » 10/11/2006 03:31

Kao sto rekoh, ni malo ne odobravam sta radi Izrael, stavise. Ali sa druge strane, pun mi je k.... ovih boraca kao sto je dino_selma, kojima je sveta misija da se bore protiv cionista. Upratite malo njegove postove na temama koje bas i nemaju veze sa jevrejima.
Primjer: Jedno govno otislo drugo doslo . Ovaj je pravi cionista , rumsfeld je mala maca Aj dabogda iz Iraka i Afganistana bjezali ko iz Sajgona . amin yarabi.
Ovo je na temi "Donald Ramsfeld - OSTAVKA". Pa kakve veze imaju jevreji sa Irakom i Afganistanom, veze sa vezom.

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pitt
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#30

Post by pitt » 10/11/2006 04:17

Procitah u The Economist, interesantna knjiga jednog izraelskog akademika:

The Palestinians

Nations and narratives

Nov 2nd 2006
From The Economist print edition


An Israeli academic who argues that Israel should confess to a deliberate campaign to expel nearly 800,000 Palestinians in 1948 is courting controversy at home
SO IS it to be 1967 or 1948? For watchers of the Middle East this question is shorthand for two different ways to think about the origins of, and solutions to, the long conflict between Israel and the Arabs of Palestine. In the eyes of the 1967 crowd, Israel was entitled to the borders it had before its abrupt expansion in the six-day war of that year. To make peace, the trick is therefore to create circumstances in which Israel will give up most or all of that land and allow an independent Palestinian state to arise in the West Bank and Gaza. That, as generations of failed peacemakers have discovered, is quite a tall order.

For the 1948 crowd, however, this way of thinking about the conflict is a mistake. They argue that peace is impossible unless Israel admits to and atones for the crime they say it committed nearly 60 years ago, in its independence war of 1948. That crime, they say, was deliberately to expel most of the Arabs of Palestine, close to 800,000 people, in order to be sure of having a Jewish majority for the Jewish state. Unless Israel somehow makes amends for this earlier catastrophe, which the Arabs call the nakba, peace is an impossibility.


Ilan Pappe, a political scientist at the University of Haifa, is one of the purest Israeli exponents of the 1948 view. He knows how provocative it is to choose the phrase “ethnic cleansing” for the title of his latest book. But ethnic cleansing, he insists, is precisely what occurred in the first Arab-Israeli war. It was, he says, a long-premeditated crime, implemented ruthlessly and then systematically denied. In 1948 the Zionists did not happen to wage a war that tragically but inevitably led to the expulsion of parts of the indigenous population. The ethnic cleansing of all of Palestine, he maintains, was the main goal all along.

Inside Israel, the historiography of 1948 has been in ferment for more than 20 years. Israel and its admirers once clung to a simple collective view about the circumstances of the state's birth. In a Solomonic judgment, the United Nations voted to divide the contested land into a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Jews accepted the plan, but the Arabs tried to strangle the Jewish state at birth. In the course of the war that followed, the Jews overcame vast odds, guaranteeing their survival and expanding the territory allotted to them under the original plan. In the course of the fighting, most of the Arab population fled.

The last bit of this over-simple narrative has by now been comprehensively debunked. In 1988 Benny Morris, an Israeli historian, published “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949”, challenging the view that most of the Arabs fled of their own accord, in panic or at the behest of the Arab states. In many towns and villages they were put to flight deliberately. Mr Morris said that there was no master plan to evict all the Arabs: many expulsions took place in the heat of battle and the fog of war. But he also argued that the idea of a population transfer had been carefully considered by David Ben-Gurion and the other Zionist leaders, and hovered behind their actions and deliberations.

Mr Morris and other “new historians” in Israel unleashed fierce argument. Other scholars accused Mr Morris of traducing Ben-Gurion through selective quotation. In a new version of “The Birth” in 2004, Mr Morris offered even more evidence of the extent to which the Zionist leadership hankered after a population transfer, and the alacrity with which they exploited the events of 1948 to bring one about. (Mr Morris also said, in an interview that stunned his supporters, that Israel was justified in uprooting the Palestinian “fifth column” once the Arabs had attacked the infant state, and that the number executed or massacred—some 800, on his reckoning—was “peanuts” compared with, say, the massacres in Bosnia in the 1990s.)

Mr Pappe, however, goes a good deal further than Mr Morris. He insists that there was indeed a master plan. On March 10th 1948, he asserts, 11 men met at the “red house”, the Tel Aviv headquarters of Israel's pre-state army, the Haganah, to put the final touches to Plan Dalet, “a plan for the ethnic cleansing of Palestine”. That evening, military orders were sent to units on the ground to prepare for the expulsion of the Palestinians. Mr Pappe calls this group of men the “consultancy”, an ad hoc cabal of political and military leaders dominated by Ben-Gurion. And population transfer did not just “hover” in the background of their thinking, he says. It was central from the start.



Still in a fog
You might suppose that after 60-odd years the story of 1948 would by now have been laid bare. Historians have access, on the Israeli side at least, to military archives, political minutes and personal diaries.

It is not, alas, so simple. The consultancy rarely kept minutes. Ben-Gurion was a prodigious diarist, but selective in what he recorded. Mr Pappe admits that he does not in fact know what Ben-Gurion said at the supposedly fateful “red house” meeting on March 10th. As for Plan Dalet, this is no new discovery by Mr Pappe. The plan has been public for decades and does not read unambiguously like a master plan for wholesale ethnic cleansing. The aim was to crush the Palestinian militias before the Haganah had to face the invading Arab armies. It gave commanders discretion to occupy or destroy and expel hostile villages or potentially hostile villages; some destroyed swathes of villages and a few did not. And Mr Pappe's detractors will ask why he ignores the orders sent out by the chief of staff of the Haganah, Israel Galili, on March 24th, reminding commanders of the policy to protect the “full rights, needs, and freedom of the Arabs in the Hebrew state without discrimination”.

Thanks to such inconsistencies, the history of 1948 will remain contentious. And like much of the “new history”, this book has the defect of treating the Palestinians only as victims, not as actors in their own right. But how much really turns on this debate among historians? Mr Pappe says that Zionism needs to acknowledge and reverse its original sin. But whether or not the population transfer of 1948 was premeditated (as he says), or largely opportunistic (as Mr Morris says), history can hardly be rewound over half a century.

Some thoughtful Israeli politicians have indeed acknowledged their country's portion of the blame. In his 2005 memoir, “Scars of War, Wounds of Peace”, Shlomo Ben-Ami, a former foreign minister (and historian) accepted that in 1948 an Arab community “in a state of terror” was put to flight by a “ruthless” Israeli army that perpetrated atrocities and massacres. This was done consciously to enlarge the borders of the new state. But whatever the moral case for letting back the refugees, Mr Ben-Ami says, after the war this was “out of the question in a historical and political context”, not least because of the illegitimate demands of the Arab states, who never accepted partition and indeed grabbed for themselves much of what should have been the Palestinian state.

As Ehud Barak's foreign minister, Mr Ben-Ami was part of the team that tried at Camp David in 2000 to make peace on roughly the border of 1967. Mr Pappe is not surprised that this failed. For the Palestinians, he says, “1948 is the heart of the matter and only addressing the wrongs perpetrated then can bring us closer to the end of the conflict.” But Mr Pappe wants Israel not just to apologise but also to let back all the Arab refugees, and so give up the idea of remaining a Jewish state with a Jewish majority. It is hard to imagine many Israelis agreeing to that, whatever they come to believe really happened in 1948.

The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine.
By Ilan Pappe.
Oneworld; 313 pages; £16.99. To be published in America by Oneworld in December

Image

digger
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#31

Post by digger » 10/11/2006 05:12

Ma da je dino_selma dodao stvari koje nemaju veze sa istorijom—a jedan dio potpada pod standardnu i jeftinu propagandu—tacno je da je Izrael ucinio masu stvari koje im mnogi nikada nece zaboraviti.

Ako kome treba dati kredit za javnu kritiku nekih poteza izraelske vlade i njenih organa (Mossad, IAF), onda je to velika i glasna opozicija unutar Izraela koja nema dlake na jeziku kada treba kritikovati svoje sunarodnjake. Ilan je jedan od takvih glasova.

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#32

Post by Murisno1 » 10/11/2006 07:52

digger wrote:Ma da je dino_selma dodao stvari koje nemaju veze sa istorijom—a jedan dio potpada pod standardnu i jeftinu propagandu—tacno je da je Izrael ucinio masu stvari koje im mnogi nikada nece zaboraviti.

Ako kome treba dati kredit za javnu kritiku nekih poteza izraelske vlade i njenih organa (Mossad, IAF), onda je to velika i glasna opozicija unutar Izraela koja nema dlake na jeziku kada treba kritikovati svoje sunarodnjake. Ilan je jedan od takvih glasova.
svi cionisti su jevreji ali nisu svi jevreju cionisti ..

dešava se to da kada nešto kažeš protiv njih dernu te ko niko ..
Bill Clinton je jarane nakon našteljivanja rukovanja između tadašnjeg premijera Izraela i Arafata .... popušio MoniKi levinski :-)

Imaju moć medija da te razvale do bola...

pitaj henrya forda :)

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#33

Post by dino_selma » 10/11/2006 08:33

[quote="GandalfSivi"]Kao sto rekoh, ni malo ne odobravam sta radi Izrael, stavise. Ali sa druge strane, pun mi je k.... ovih boraca kao sto je dino_selma, kojima je sveta misija da se bore protiv cionista. Upratite malo njegove postove na temama koje bas i nemaju veze sa jevrejima.
Primjer: Jedno govno otislo drugo doslo . Ovaj je pravi cionista , rumsfeld je mala maca Aj dabogda iz Iraka i Afganistana bjezali ko iz Sajgona . amin yarabi.
Ovo je na temi "Donald Ramsfeld - OSTAVKA". Pa kakve veze imaju jevreji sa Irakom i Afganistanom, veze sa vezom.[/quote]
Jedan post a toliko gluposti :lol: Cuj kakve veze imaju Irak i Afganistan sa zidovima . :D Stvarno , samo jedan politicki diletant kao ti moze ovo izreci i ostati ziv
Drugo kao covjek kojeg povijest vrlo interesira zelim iznijeti na cihistac sta se desava u svijetu i npr ko vlada amerikom a time i cijelim svijetom . Ko je odgovoran za napade na WTC ( samo budala moze vjerovati u zvanichnu verziju u kojoj izmedju ostalog stoji da su navodni teroristi u Kuranu casnom podvukli ajet u kojem stoji da treba pobit sve Jenkije :D . I u to je povjerovalo 80 odsto stanovniistva BiH a sta onda rec o amerikenjcima ) to vec svaka budala zna . Ovim primjerima koje sam ranije citirao sam htio podvuci da su zidovski teroristi koristili arapsku nosnju kao sto i jedan od amerikanaca rece , u napadima na zapadnjake ( medju njima i Nijemce ) da bise optuzili arapi . Vodja tih terorista je KASNIJE DOBIO NOBELOVU NAGRADU ZA MIR . HALO ZA MIR . Pa ko moze biti ravnodusan na to .

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#34

Post by karanana » 10/11/2006 08:44

Lupetate i jedan i drugi.

Naravno da Zidovi imaju uticaj na ovo sto se desava u Iraku i Avganistanu i oslabljeni, gradjanskim ratom obuhvaceni Irak im odgovara i mislim da su njihovi prsti duboko umjesani u ove Iracke medjunacionalne sukobe.

Dino ti ga jos vise pretjerujes sa ovim preoblacivanjem izraelskih terorista u arape, 9/11 zavjerama i tako tim glupostima. Onda sto ne bih i ja vjerovao srbima da je muslimanska vojska granatirala sarajevo da bi se onda kasnije okrivili srbi? zvuci mi uvjerljivije nego ove tvoje price.

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#35

Post by bice_bice » 10/11/2006 08:47

Pa kakve veze imaju jevreji sa Irakom i Afganistanom, veze sa vezom.

joj gandalfe, crni gandalfe... :lol: :lol: :lol: ima nas i koji pajkimo po vazdan..

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arman1
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#36

Post by arman1 » 10/11/2006 08:52

bice_bice wrote:Pa kakve veze imaju jevreji sa Irakom i Afganistanom, veze sa vezom.

joj gandalfe, crni gandalfe... :lol: :lol: :lol: ima nas i koji pajkimo po vazdan..
Osim da su oficiri Mosada na terenu zajedno sa USA špijama.

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#37

Post by Murisno1 » 10/11/2006 09:04

karanana wrote:Lupetate i jedan i drugi.

Naravno da Zidovi imaju uticaj na ovo sto se desava u Iraku i Avganistanu i oslabljeni, gradjanskim ratom obuhvaceni Irak im odgovara i mislim da su njihovi prsti duboko umjesani u ove Iracke medjunacionalne sukobe.

Dino ti ga jos vise pretjerujes sa ovim preoblacivanjem izraelskih terorista u arape, 9/11 zavjerama i tako tim glupostima. Onda sto ne bih i ja vjerovao srbima da je muslimanska vojska granatirala sarajevo da bi se onda kasnije okrivili srbi? zvuci mi uvjerljivije nego ove tvoje price.
pa upravo srbi žele dokazati da smo mi gađali sami sebe ..
ko što JEVREJI žele dokazati da su muslimani napravili 9/11 ..

eh sad ..
srbi nemaju moć i način kako da to "dokažu"u svijetu :-)
a jevreji i svi to znamo imaju :(

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#38

Post by bice_bice » 10/11/2006 09:13

pa upravo srbi žele dokazati da smo mi gađali sami sebe ..
ko što JEVREJI žele dokazati da su muslimani napravili 9/11 ..

eh sad ..
srbi nemaju moć i način kako da to "dokažu"u svijetu :-)
a jevreji i svi to znamo imaju :([/quote]


da im je (srbima) jedan Ad Fagan, gdje bi nas bilo.. :) :-D :D

i Borat nesto spomenu oko 9/11 i zidova.. bas me zanima kako vi o tome misljenje imate.. ko je kako i sta skonto u toj sceni/izjavi.. ja nisam nisht'.. :-? :sad: :(

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karanana
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#39

Post by karanana » 10/11/2006 09:18

Ma to je izjava kad su Borat i onaj njegov drug krenuli u Californiju i nisu smjeli ici avionom jer su se bojali jos jednog samoubilackog napada zidovskih terorista kao sto je bio onaj koji su odradili 9/11.

Ma Borat, ustvari Cohen kao pipadnik jevrejske vjere, ustvari sarkasticno brani zidove nabacujuci im svu ljagu i "gluposti" za koje se oni u svijetu krive i prikazivajuci muslimane kao primitvce kojima su zidovi krivi za sve.

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#40

Post by arman1 » 10/11/2006 09:21

BORAT, čitaj S. B. C. je jedna obična debilčina(bos. čovjek čiju dijagnozu ni medicina ne može objasniti) odrastao u WASP okruženju sa jakim cionističkim ubjeđenjem.

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#41

Post by bice_bice » 10/11/2006 11:36

nJesto nam je dino_selma stao/stala.. nisi nam valjda izlapio/la :)

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arman1
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#42

Post by arman1 » 10/11/2006 11:40

Prije bih rekao još jedan ban.
Usput šta ovo bi sa forumom.

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#43

Post by digger » 10/11/2006 14:05

Murisno1 wrote:pa upravo srbi žele dokazati da smo mi gađali sami sebe ..
ko što JEVREJI žele dokazati da su muslimani napravili 9/11 ..
eh sad ..
srbi nemaju moć i način kako da to "dokažu"u svijetu :-)
a jevreji i svi to znamo imaju :(
Bogati Murisno, zar ti vjerujes u gornje i slicne gluposti?

Nemoj bolan da se sramotis.

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#44

Post by bice_bice » 10/11/2006 14:07

digger wrote:
Murisno1 wrote:pa upravo srbi žele dokazati da smo mi gađali sami sebe ..
ko što JEVREJI žele dokazati da su muslimani napravili 9/11 ..
eh sad ..
srbi nemaju moć i način kako da to "dokažu"u svijetu :-)
a jevreji i svi to znamo imaju :(
Bogati Murisno, zar ti vjerujes u gornje i slicne gluposti?

Nemoj bolan da se sramotis.
sto zachatavas kad nemas nista konkretno rec'.. 8-)

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#45

Post by GandalfSivi » 10/11/2006 14:16

Sa americkom vanjskom politikom (tu racunam i Afganistan i Irak) najvise veze ima evandjelisticki lobi. To su vam pravo gadni likovi koji otprilike imaju dugorocni plan da zatru druge religije (izmedju kojih i jevrejsku). Sto se tice 9/11, meni jaran moj dan poslije prica (u Sarajevu je to bilo) kako jevreji nisu taj dan dosli na posao. Ko on cuo iz povjerljivih izvora (od brace). Te teorije zavjere su presmijesne, morbidne i nadasve opasne. Nekako mi odredjeni likovi sa ovog foruma sve vise lice na Ristu Djogu i njegovo valjanje u studiju nakon Markala.
Ponovit cu jos jednom, politika Izraela je odvratna, pa moze se cak reci i teroristicka, ali optuzivati pripadnike cijele religije (bilo koje) za terorizam ili zavjeru je cisti idiotizam, pa makar on dolazio od americke administracije ili bolesnika sa ovog foruma.

Sam naziv ovog topica je bolestan, fasisoidan i idiotski. Da je covjek bio normalan pa napisao izraelski terorizam mogli bi se sloziti. Cak me cudi sto moderatori dozvoljavaju ovakve nazive topica na forumu.

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#46

Post by vodolija_33 » 10/11/2006 14:26

digger wrote:
Murisno1 wrote:pa upravo srbi žele dokazati da smo mi gađali sami sebe ..
ko što JEVREJI žele dokazati da su muslimani napravili 9/11 ..
eh sad ..
srbi nemaju moć i način kako da to "dokažu"u svijetu :-)
a jevreji i svi to znamo imaju :(
Bogati Murisno, zar ti vjerujes u gornje i slicne gluposti?

Nemoj bolan da se sramotis.
ma joook... gdje će u to vjerovat'... ko još u to vjeruje... 8-)

ja mislim da se Murisno1 malo zekio :D:D:D

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#47

Post by bice_bice » 10/11/2006 14:31

GandalfSivi wrote: Sam naziv ovog topica je bolestan, fasisoidan i idiotski. Da je covjek bio normalan pa napisao izraelski terorizam mogli bi se sloziti. Cak me cudi sto moderatori dozvoljavaju ovakve nazive topica na forumu.
ovo cu ti potpisat..

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#48

Post by DONY » 10/11/2006 14:34

bice_bice wrote:
GandalfSivi wrote: Sam naziv ovog topica je bolestan, fasisoidan i idiotski. Da je covjek bio normalan pa napisao izraelski terorizam mogli bi se sloziti. Cak me cudi sto moderatori dozvoljavaju ovakve nazive topica na forumu.
ovo cu ti potpisat..

Slazem se potpuno..

nemaveze
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#49

Post by nemaveze » 10/11/2006 14:37

ma jok ba, kakav izraelski terorizam, sve su izraelci u pravu, krivi su svi drugi, pa što bi vjerovao nešto drugo osim u ono što nam serviraju jevrejski mediji

najradije bih te uvrijedio, ali te ne znam pa ću se suzdržati :)

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#50

Post by ak-47 » 10/11/2006 14:48

DONY wrote:
bice_bice wrote:
GandalfSivi wrote: Sam naziv ovog topica je bolestan, fasisoidan i idiotski. Da je covjek bio normalan pa napisao izraelski terorizam mogli bi se sloziti. Cak me cudi sto moderatori dozvoljavaju ovakve nazive topica na forumu.
ovo cu ti potpisat..

Slazem se potpuno..
Sto da ne kad moze po svim medijima da se bez problema provlaci fraza ''Islamski terorizam'' kojom se svi muslimani poistovjecuju sa par hiljada radikalnih fanatika koji ne znaju gdje udaraju zasto se onda nebi moglo reci za izraelski terorizam ''zidovski terorizam'' imamo vise osnova jer velika vecina zidova na ovaj ili onaj nacin podrzava izrael dok je postotak muslimana koji podrzavaju Al kaidu neznatan pa ipak svi smo poistovjeceni s njima.

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