Danasnji "feminizam"

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Seawolf
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#27801 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Seawolf »

MarlboroGold wrote: 24/06/2022 21:12
Spoiler
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Bloo wrote: 24/06/2022 19:28 Prije par momenata, iskače mi ovo na FB (po stoti put) i uvijek me nasmije. :D
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Ih to je vrijeme pravih junakinja. Porediti nju sa današnjim ženskim ulogama poput Captain Marvel je uvreda.
Droona .... dokaz da u svijetu stripa ne postoji gravitacija ....

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MarlboroGold
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#27802 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by MarlboroGold »

Ih to sam baš davno čitao... zaboravio sam ime autora. Neki italijan čini mi se
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Chmoljo
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#27803 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Chmoljo »

no_sikiriki wrote: 24/06/2022 17:52
piupiu wrote: 24/06/2022 17:42 Ne'š vjerovat', jučer sam čak i cuku u trenerci prošetala. :D
Joj, te trenerkice na cukama su mi baš bezveze. Ono, pustite životinje da budu životinje. :mrgreen:
Neke rase su takve da to nije stvar modiranja nego potrebe.
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MarlboroGold
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#27804 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by MarlboroGold »

Bloo wrote: 24/06/2022 21:16
MarlboroGold wrote: 24/06/2022 21:12 Ih to je vrijeme pravih junakinja. Porediti nju sa današnjim ženskim ulogama poput Captain Marvel je uvreda.
Osobo sa testisima, you have no power here....
Captain Marvel is cool.
Ms. Marvel is cool also.

ti si obični Morbo. :oops:
Morbo :lol:

gdje ti on pade na pamet :mrgreen:
John Cleese
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#27805 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by John Cleese »

Seawolf wrote: 24/06/2022 19:02
piupiu wrote: 24/06/2022 18:17

Ja stvarno ne očekujem da mi tudje dijete od 8 godina duguje objašnjenje za jednu tako intimnu i problematičnu stvar. Neodgovorno je uplitati se u takvu situaciju i činiti je dodatno teškom da bi se zadovoljila svoja znatiželja. Razna mahalska raskopavanja i vode u osude i ubjedjivanja i sve ostale situacije koje tu djecu nerijetko otjeraju na psihijatriju, pa i u smrt. Potpuno neprimjereno. Sjećaš li se teme o Mahiru? Sudbine te porodice?
Ne dopada mi se spominjanje stvarnih ljudskih tragedija u kontekstu priče o problemu kojeg smatram izmišljenim.

Dalje, što se tiče samoidentifikacije osmogodišnjeg djeteta, da znaš šta sam ja svašta zamišljao da sam kada sam bio tih godina, pa opet nisam bio duboko nesretan što me roditelji ne vode na ugradnju krila i perja.
Onda ti se vjerojatno ne dopada ni cinjenica da nekakvi ljudi, koji misle da o tom "izmisljenom problemu" i o mozgu koji je "u presudnom trenutku poprskan pogresnim hormonom" zaista nesto znaju, kao, istrazuju, pa istrazivanjem, kao, dodju do zakljucka koji se usude smatrati dokazom da problem nije izmisljen te o tome drzati predavanja i to, zamisli samo bezobrazluka, ne pred ignorantima na irelevantnim forumima nego na skupovima, na primjer, endokrinologa - dotle to ide :|

Pogotovo kad znas da to rade samo zbog zarade, sto je ocito, jer ko bi, za boga miloga, utrosio tolike godine na skupo obrazovanje (koje je, uzgred, s lakocom mogao steci i surfajuci po internetu), ako to nece skupo i naplatiti, prvom prilikom i po svaku cijenu, makar to bilo i za "presadjivanje penisa na celo" ili stvaranje uvjeta nekome da to prakticira, ako vec nemaju drugog lukrativnog posla pri ruci. Pa je li tako ili ne? :|

Sto se tice djecije "samoidentifikacije" - ako ti svojedobno nisi bio duboko nesretan s tim u vezi, onda to sigurno ne moze biti nijedno dijete na planeti i ako se koje i pozali, ne treba mu vjerovati. Ma bravo :D
no_sikiriki
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#27807 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by no_sikiriki »

Chmoljo wrote: 24/06/2022 21:37
no_sikiriki wrote: 24/06/2022 17:52

Joj, te trenerkice na cukama su mi baš bezveze. Ono, pustite životinje da budu životinje. :mrgreen:
Neke rase su takve da to nije stvar modiranja nego potrebe.
Što, toliko su ružni da ih je bolje pokriti nečim?? :mrgreen:
Seawolf
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#27808 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Seawolf »

MarlboroGold wrote: 24/06/2022 21:36 Ih to sam baš davno čitao... zaboravio sam ime autora. Neki italijan čini mi se
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John Cleese
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#27809 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by John Cleese »

no_sikiriki wrote: 24/06/2022 17:52
piupiu wrote: 24/06/2022 17:42 Ne'š vjerovat', jučer sam čak i cuku u trenerci prošetala. :D
Joj, te trenerkice na cukama su mi baš bezveze. Ono, pustite životinje da budu životinje. :mrgreen:
A dzempercici? :D
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MarlboroGold
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#27810 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by MarlboroGold »

Seawolf wrote: 24/06/2022 21:43
MarlboroGold wrote: 24/06/2022 21:36 Ih to sam baš davno čitao... zaboravio sam ime autora. Neki italijan čini mi se
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e hvala :thumbup:

baciću opet oko kad stignem... znam da mi se to svidjelo pravo
no_sikiriki
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#27811 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by no_sikiriki »

John Cleese wrote: 24/06/2022 21:40 Sto se tice djecije "samoidentifikacije" - ako ti svojedobno nisi bio duboko nesretan s tim u vezi, onda to sigurno ne moze biti nijedno dijete na planeti i ako se koje i pozali, ne treba mu vjerovati. Ma bravo :D
Da, nažalost ljudi misle da djeca nisu "mjerodavna" za nešto samo zato što su djeca. Ali nije to dijete od 2 godine...
John Cleese
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#27812 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by John Cleese »

no_sikiriki wrote: 24/06/2022 21:42
Chmoljo wrote: 24/06/2022 21:37

Neke rase su takve da to nije stvar modiranja nego potrebe.
Što, toliko su ružni da ih je bolje pokriti nečim?? :mrgreen:
:lol: Ma bude im hladno :D

Ozbiljno. Mogu dobiti i upalu pluca, ako ih nekako ne utoplis :)
no_sikiriki
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#27813 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by no_sikiriki »

John Cleese wrote: 24/06/2022 21:44
no_sikiriki wrote: 24/06/2022 17:52

Joj, te trenerkice na cukama su mi baš bezveze. Ono, pustite životinje da budu životinje. :mrgreen:
A dzempercici? :D
:lol:
A lak na noktićima/kandžicama? Što da ne, što da neee....

A sad ozbiljno, mogu samo halaliti onima što imaju pse u kući (moj je u dvorištu) one nekakve pape kad su kišni dani, da ne prljaju stan, sve ostalo je... :mrgreen:
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MarlboroGold
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#27814 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by MarlboroGold »

saint_mirad wrote: 24/06/2022 21:42
deus vult!
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joj :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

mada nisam za takve zabrane i već sam obrazlagao svoje stavove... tu sam negdje na sredini ni tamo ni ovamo čisto da sve strane budu zadovoljene.

Ne znam ni da li je pametno danas nastupati sa takve pozicije... uglavnom nije.
Niemand
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#27815 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Niemand »

A sta velite za gender-neutral parenting i theybies?

:meza1:
Seawolf
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#27816 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Seawolf »

John Cleese wrote: 24/06/2022 21:40
Seawolf wrote: 24/06/2022 19:02

Ne dopada mi se spominjanje stvarnih ljudskih tragedija u kontekstu priče o problemu kojeg smatram izmišljenim.

Dalje, što se tiče samoidentifikacije osmogodišnjeg djeteta, da znaš šta sam ja svašta zamišljao da sam kada sam bio tih godina, pa opet nisam bio duboko nesretan što me roditelji ne vode na ugradnju krila i perja.
Onda ti se vjerojatno ne dopada ni cinjenica da nekakvi ljudi, koji misle da o tom "izmisljenom problemu" i o mozgu koji je "u presudnom trenutku poprskan pogresnim hormonom" zaista nesto znaju, kao, istrazuju, pa istrazivanjem, kao, dodju do zakljucka koji se usude smatrati dokazom da problem nije izmisljen te o tome drzati predavanja i to, zamisli samo bezobrazluka, ne pred ignorantima na irelevantnim forumima nego na skupovima, na primjer, endokrinologa - dotle to ide :|

Pogotovo kad znas da to rade samo zbog zarade, sto je ocito, jer ko bi, za boga miloga, utrosio tolike godine na skupo obrazovanje (koje je, uzgred, s lakocom mogao steci i surfajuci po internetu), ako to nece skupo i naplatiti, prvom prilikom i po svaku cijenu, makar to bilo i za "presadjivanje penisa na celo" ili stvaranje uvjeta nekome da to prakticira, ako vec nemaju drugog lukrativnog posla pri ruci. Pa je li tako ili ne? :|

Sto se tice djecije "samoidentifikacije" - ako ti svojedobno nisi bio duboko nesretan s tim u vezi, onda to sigurno ne moze biti nijedno dijete na planeti i ako se koje i pozali, ne treba mu vjerovati. Ma bravo :D
Pa, prilično si dobro sve koncipirao.

Pogotovu ovaj dio sa endokrinolozima. Što bi oni ostali bez svog dijela zarade?
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konoplja
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#27817 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by konoplja »

MarlboroGold wrote: 24/06/2022 21:49 na sredini ni tamo ni ovamo čisto da sve strane budu zadovoljene.

Ne znam ni da li je pametno danas nastupati sa takve pozicije... uglavnom nije.
Najgore. Sjedeca patka za najglasnije s obje strane.
John Cleese
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#27818 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by John Cleese »

Seawolf wrote: 24/06/2022 21:54
John Cleese wrote: 24/06/2022 21:40

Onda ti se vjerojatno ne dopada ni cinjenica da nekakvi ljudi, koji misle da o tom "izmisljenom problemu" i o mozgu koji je "u presudnom trenutku poprskan pogresnim hormonom" zaista nesto znaju, kao, istrazuju, pa istrazivanjem, kao, dodju do zakljucka koji se usude smatrati dokazom da problem nije izmisljen te o tome drzati predavanja i to, zamisli samo bezobrazluka, ne pred ignorantima na irelevantnim forumima nego na skupovima, na primjer, endokrinologa - dotle to ide :|

Pogotovo kad znas da to rade samo zbog zarade, sto je ocito, jer ko bi, za boga miloga, utrosio tolike godine na skupo obrazovanje (koje je, uzgred, s lakocom mogao steci i surfajuci po internetu), ako to nece skupo i naplatiti, prvom prilikom i po svaku cijenu, makar to bilo i za "presadjivanje penisa na celo" ili stvaranje uvjeta nekome da to prakticira, ako vec nemaju drugog lukrativnog posla pri ruci. Pa je li tako ili ne? :|

Sto se tice djecije "samoidentifikacije" - ako ti svojedobno nisi bio duboko nesretan s tim u vezi, onda to sigurno ne moze biti nijedno dijete na planeti i ako se koje i pozali, ne treba mu vjerovati. Ma bravo :D
Pa, prilično si dobro sve koncipirao.

Pogotovu ovaj dio sa endokrinolozima. Što bi oni ostali bez svog dijela zarade?
Znao sam! Diplomicu im njihovu endokrinolosku!
A tu je sad, evo i potvrda ispravnosti takvoga mnijenja - second opinion, takoreci :| :D
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konoplja
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#27819 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by konoplja »

Niemand wrote: 24/06/2022 21:51 A sta velite za gender-neutral parenting i theybies?

:meza1:
Dobra stvar protiv tabula rase i socijalnog konstrukcionizma.
Niemand
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#27820 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Niemand »

Zanimljivo je ovo da se ne bi ponovile greske iz proslosti.

Genderqueer generation

Raising a theybie: the parent who wants their child to grow up gender-free

Parents raising ‘theybies’ say it liberates children from gender roles and gives them the freedom to choose their own label

Long before becoming pregnant, Kori Doty knew exactly how they were going to raise their child.

When Doty was born in the picturesque seaside city of Victoria, British Columbia, in the 1980s, a doctor assigned them as female, but the label didn’t fit. “When I was born, a guess was made [about my gender] because nobody knew better than to do that. And that guess was incorrect,” says Doty, who now identifies as non-binary trans – meaning they are neither a man nor a woman, and that their identity does not correspond with their birth sex. “It caused some amount of complication, upset and harm in my life.”

So when Doty gave birth in November 2016, they were determined not to repeat the mistakes of the past.


Doty decided to raise their child Searyl – Sea for short – outside the gender binary from the start. The idea was to give Sea autonomy over their own identity and presentation, whether they ultimately want to identify within the gender binary or not. “I’m not prescribing what’s right,” says Doty. “I’m not saying they are a girl, or they are a boy, or they are non-binary and therefore it has to be like this. My approach has been: ‘I don’t know.’ I don’t know who they’re going to be or what’s going to be important to them. What’s important to me is that I hold all of the space so that they can figure out who they are with the full menu.”

“You parent based on who you are and what you believe in the world,” Doty adds. “What I believe in the world has led me to a place where of course my kid would have full autonomy of gender.”

Today, Sea is a sporty three-year-old who loves riding their pink bike, watching In The Night Garden on YouTube, and cozying up inside a mermaid-tail blanket. Their bedroom is decorated with all sorts of oceanic motifs – fish, mermaids and especially seahorses (“Guys who have babies” are often given seahorse-themed gifts, says Doty, “’cause that’s how seahorses do”.)

Sea enjoys being read books from the LGBTQ+ positive children’s publisher Flamingo Rampant, especially Tobi Hill-Meyer’s A Princess of Great Daring, about a trans child telling her friends she’s a girl for the first time while they play a make-believe game of fairytale knights and dragons. “They tell queer and trans stories that are positive and affirming and celebratory, not like, womp womp, your life is hard,” says Doty.

Doty does not consider any colors or aesthetics to be inherently gendered. As a result, Sea is free to gravitate towards whatever clothing or toys they like, often opting to play with Legos and wear oversized T-shirt dresses. “They really love to dance, and they have this idea that dancing well requires a skirt that swishes around,” says Doty.

Since about 2018, the concept of “theybies” – a portmanteau of the neutral pronoun “they” and the word “baby”, referring to young children raised as neither boys nor klix – has gained currency, if not exactly broken through to the mainstream. This is especially true among progressive parents, some of whom feel “gender-autonomous parenting” grants their kids more leeway for self-determination, and freedom from the gender biases which might otherwise plague them from infancy.

For instance, researchers have found that adults underestimate female children’s motor skills at 11 months, and judge baby boys with high-pitched cries as “less masculine” than their deeper-voiced counterparts. A 2017 BBC experiment demonstrated that well-meaning adults often unconsciously project gender stereotypes on to babies via the toys they offer them – consequently contributing to a cumulative, substantial impact on the babies’ development.

While the term “theybies” itself is novel, Doty, who has both worked and participated in the LGBTQ+ community for over a decade, notes that gender diversity is hardly new. “All of a sudden, [gender diversity] seems like it’s coming out of nowhere. But the truth is that it was actually there all along,” they say. “The old way is really cracking. And even people who have had enough privilege to be able to not pay attention to the fact that it needed to crack – even they’re paying attention now.”

At a glance, Doty and Sea make non-binary childhood look easy. Doty says they aren’t the only person in their community raising a non-binary child. “In Sea’s peer group of kids in the two-to-four category in our Unitarian church’s family program, maybe half of them have been given full gender autonomy, and another quarter of them, their parents have decided, ‘Yeah, we’re going to use binary pronouns, but also you can be whoever and whatever.’ So it’s very normalized in our world,” they say.

Doty’s own parents switched from being conservative Christians to becoming proud members of PFLAG, an organization for supportive family and friends of LGBTQ+ people, back when Doty came out in 2006 – so wrapping their heads around a non-binary grandchild wasn’t hard. Sea’s preschool works with a trans-friendly organization, and its teachers have been on the ball about pronoun use.

“I’ve definitely had people say, ‘Oh, I’ve never come across [a non-binary child] before,’ or, ‘You can’t expect me to get [their pronouns] right all the time,’” says Doty. “And they get it right more than they think they will. It’s not as complicated as people like to think it is.”

While some parents may worry about their gender-autonomous child becoming a target for bullies, Doty and Sea haven’t crossed that bridge yet. For their part, Doty has found that kids often understand what it means to be non-binary better than adults, anyway. “I remember one of my ex’s kids, when he was five, sitting in the backseat of my parent’s car, correcting my dad about my pronouns,” they say.

In 2017, Doty and Sea made headlines when Sea received a Canadian health card with a “U” (presumably for “unknown”) instead of an “M” or “F” to indicate their gender. Although the British Columbian provincial government has since updated its policies to allow citizens to opt for an “X” gender designation on their IDs, at the time, Sea’s health card was reported as a possible “world’s first” non-binary ID.

That news brought a lot of attention. Some of it was positive. “The most heartwarming responses were from people who hadn’t put any thought into [gender-autonomous parenting] and who were expecting or had just had kids, and who were taking it into consideration, and trying to implement ways of making sure that their kids felt like they had support and freedom to be their whole selves,” says Doty.

But Doty and Sea also received so much online harassment that Doty hired someone to filter toxic messages out of their email inbox.

“There are people who have felt that [our family] wasn’t just problematic, but was like, the antichrist, or a sign of the end times,” Doty says. “I found out that there was a campaign letter written about me by [a fundamentalist Christian activist group] and it was like, you know, ‘We’ll pray for these people because they’re so disillusioned.’

“I worry for people who have to grow up with that kind of rigidity and control and expectation,” says Doty. “I mean, I know that it’s harmful; I grew up that way. Having found my way out, I feel like if anything I will be praying for their children.”

Fortunately, the backlash against theybies hasn’t affected Sea yet – perhaps it never will. For now, they are focused on the little adventures of toddlerhood – processing a wasp sting from last summer by pretending to be a wasp themself, and learning how to count.

Doty hopes that Sea will grow up empowered, “To be able to [say], ‘Yeah, I like dressing this way,’ or ‘I like playing these games or using these words for myself because it’s what feels good to me and it’s not about anyone else,’” says Doty. “That’s how they are about it now – I want that to continue.”

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... free-child
Hakiz
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#27821 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Hakiz »

KraljicaIzJajca wrote: 24/06/2022 19:34
Hakiz wrote: 24/06/2022 19:22

Mogu ti obrazložiti šta vole. Volim to i to. Na koji način da ti obrazlože kako se osjećaju?
Meni su rekli kad i kako su postali svijesni svojih homo sklonosti.
Ne izvrći. Lijepo sam pitao kako misliš da ti neko obrazloži kako se osjeća. Lako je reći kakve sklonosti neko ima, ali to nije pitanje.

Dskle, ne šta osjeća, nego kako osjeća.
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MarlboroGold
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#27822 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by MarlboroGold »

konoplja wrote: 24/06/2022 22:04
MarlboroGold wrote: 24/06/2022 21:49 na sredini ni tamo ni ovamo čisto da sve strane budu zadovoljene.

Ne znam ni da li je pametno danas nastupati sa takve pozicije... uglavnom nije.
Najgore. Sjedeca patka za najglasnije s obje strane.
Šta ću jbg... ne mogu sebi pomoći, a nije u pitanju ni neki svrbiguz da tome težim već pokušavam racionalno uzeti sve faktore u obzir. To što se nađem u takvoj poziciji ponekad u konačnici je prokletstvo. Slične stavove imam i po pitanju politike na Balkanu... patriota, ali sa primjesom i tradicionalno desničarskih i ljevičarskih stavova. Valjda bi trebalo uzeti od svega po nešto ako je i opravdano i korisno.
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Bloo
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#27823 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by Bloo »

Seawolf wrote: 24/06/2022 21:26 Droona .... dokaz da u svijetu stripa ne postoji gravitacija ..
Preferiram Manarine gospoDŽe.
John Cleese
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#27824 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by John Cleese »

no_sikiriki wrote: 24/06/2022 21:48 A sad ozbiljno, mogu samo halaliti onima što imaju pse u kući (moj je u dvorištu) one nekakve pape kad su kišni dani, da ne prljaju stan, sve ostalo je... :mrgreen:
Lako je tebi kad nemas irskog vucjeg hrta koji insistira da svako bozije popodne provede u svilenom kucnom mantilu sa obaveznom (takodje svilenom) esarpom oko vrata, rjesavajuci sudoku i pijuckajuci Bushmills :|
no_sikiriki
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#27825 Re: Danasnji "feminizam"

Post by no_sikiriki »

John Cleese wrote: 24/06/2022 22:20
no_sikiriki wrote: 24/06/2022 21:48 A sad ozbiljno, mogu samo halaliti onima što imaju pse u kući (moj je u dvorištu) one nekakve pape kad su kišni dani, da ne prljaju stan, sve ostalo je... :mrgreen:
Lako je tebi kad nemas irskog vucjeg hrta koji insistira da svako bozije popodne provede u svilenom kucnom mantilu sa obaveznom (takodje svilenom) esarpom oko vrata, rjesavajuci sudoku i pijuckajuci Bushmills :|
:lol: :lol:
Tako je, ja ipak imam beagle-a, kojem su neki htjela nataknuti Sherlock Holmes kapicu, but I said nooo, nooo, noooo :mrgreen:
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