Prelasci na Islam

[Haqqani]

Colleen Keyes



Colleen Keyes, dean of Tunxis Community College, is one of the thousands of white American Muslim women. Keyes chose Islam after being influenced by two of her students from Syria but she refrained from taking her students as role models. Keyes said many white American Muslims adopted the Islamic culture but not Islam itself. She explains the reason for not making the same error as she examined Islam academically and was married to a Christian man when she chose Islam.

[Haqqani]

KARIMA BURNS


This Iowa student of Arabic became a Muslim in her heart when she started reading the Quran in order do to her university homework and couldn't put it down.


I sat in the Alhambra Mosque in Granada, Spain staring at the script that bordered the walls. It was the most beautiful language I had ever seen. "What language is that?" I said a Spanish tourist. "Arabic," they answered.

The next day, when the tour attendant asked which language I wanted my tour book in, I answered, "Arabic."

"Arabic?" she said, surprised. "Do you speak Arabic?"

"No," I replied. "Can you give me one in English too?"

By the end of my trip I had a bag full of Arabic tour guides to all the sites I had visited in Spain. In fact, my bag was so full that at one point I had to give away some of my clothes so I could make everything fit. But, I hung on to my Arabic tour books as if they were made of gold. I would open them every night and look at the letters of the language as they flowed across the page. I imagined being able to write such beautiful script and I thought to myself that there must be something worth knowing about a culture that had such an artistic language. I vowed that I would study this language when I started college in the fall.

Only two months before, I had left my family in Iowa to take a trip through Europe, alone. I was only 16 years old and due to enter Northwestern University in the fall and I had wanted to "see the world" first. At least, that is what I told my friends and family. In reality I was searching for answers. I had left the church only a few months before and did not know where to turn. I knew that I was not comfortable with what I was being taught, but I did not know of any alternatives.

Where I grew up, in the Midwest, there was no room for confusion - you were either part of the church or you were not. So, I had no idea there was something else. When I set off for Europe I hoped that there was.

In my church we were not allowed to pray to God, we could only pray to Jesus and hope that he would relay the message to God. I had intuitively felt that there was something wrong with that and so, without telling anyone, I secretly prayed to "God." I sincerely believed that there was only one entity to pray to. But, I felt guilty because this was not what I had been taught. Then, there was the confusing matter of what to do during one's "daily life."

"I dutifully went to church every Sunday and was very serious about what I learned regarding honesty, kindness and compassion. So, it confused me when I saw people from church acting so differently during the week. Were there no rules during the week? Did they only apply on Sundays? I looked for some guidance…but found none. There were the Ten Commandments that covered the obvious things like killing, stealing and lying, but other than that, I had no guidelines for how to act when I wasn't in church. All I knew was: perhaps there was something wrong with wearing mini-skirts to church and only going to Sunday School because of cute guys that attended.

One day, I went to a teacher's house and saw a shelf lined with Bibles. I asked what they were. "Different versions of the Bible," my teacher replied. It did not seem to bother him at all that there were so many different versions. But, it bothered me. Some of them were really different and some chapters were even missing from the version I had. I was very confused.

I returned to college that fall disappointed that I had not found the answers I was hoping for in Europe, but with a passion for a language I had only just learned about - Arabic. Ironically, I had stared right at the answers I was searching for, on the walls of the Alhambra. But, it took me two more years to realize that.

The first thing I did when I reached the campus was…enroll in Arabic classes. I was one of only three people in the highly unpopular class. I immersed myself in my Arabic studies with such a passion that my teacher was confused. I did my homework with a calligraphy pen and I went into the Arab areas of Chicago just to track down a Coca Cola bottle written in the language. I begged him to lend me books in Arabic just so I could look at the script. By the time my second year of college came around, I decided I should consider a major in Middle Eastern Studies. So, I enrolled in some classes focusing on the region. In one class we studied the Qur'an.

I opened the Qur'an one night to "do my homework" and could not stop reading it. It was like I had picked up a good novel. I thought to myself, "Wow. This is great. This is what I have always believed. This answers all my questions about how to act during the week and it even states very clearly that there is only one God."

It just all made so much sense. I was amazed that there was this book written about everything I believed in and had been searching for. I went to class the next day to ask about the author of the book so I could read more books by them. In the copy I had been given, there was a name. I thought it was the author of the book, akin to the Gospels written by St. Luke or the other religions I had studied…that all attributed their writings to some person who was inspired enough to write it down.

My professor informed me that it was not the author but the translator because "according to the Muslims no one had written the book." The Qur'an was, according to THEM (referring to Muslims, he was Christian) the word of God and had not been changed since it was inspired, recited and then transcribed. Needless to say, I was fascinated. After that, I became passionate, not only about my studies of Arabic, but about studying Islam and about going to the Middle East.

My senior year in college I finally went to Egypt to continue my studies. My favorite place to go became "Islamic Cairo," where the mosques always gave me a sense of comfort and awe. I felt that by being in them, one could really feel the beauty, power and awe of Allah. And, as always I enjoyed staring at the elegant calligraphy on the walls.

One day a friend asked me why I didn't convert to Islam if I liked it so much. "But I am already Muslim." My answer surprised me. But then, I realized that it was a simple matter of logic and common sense. Islam made sense. It inspired me. I knew it was right. Why did I then have to convert? My friend informed me that in order to "be official," I needed to actually go to the mosque and state my intention in front of two witnesses. So, I did. But, when they gave the certificate to me, I just filed it in my file cabinet with my "other" medical and personal records…because to me, I had always been Muslim. I didn't need to hang a piece of paper on my wall to tell me that. I had known it the minute I picked up the Qur'an. The minute I opened it, I felt like I had found my long lost family. I hung a picture of the Alhambra Mosque on my wall instead.

[Haqqani]

STEVEN BARBOZA
(Author of "American Jihad: Islam After Malcom X")






This African American former Catholic found spiritual peace and fulfillment in orthodox Islam having investigated and rejected the racist ideology of the Nation of Islam.

My abandonment of Roman Catholicism was spawned by a premature death, my mother’s at age 49, on the day before my 22nd birthday. I prayed like crazy for God to spare her, and when He did not, I established a new line of communication. I called God Allah and prayed with my palms cupped (to catch blessings) and my eyes wide open (to keep Allah’s creation in sight). Given the irony and absurdity of events in racially torn Boston, where I lived, Islam was a godsend. A few months after my mother’s death, whites assaulted a black man in front of Boston City Hall, using as one weapon a flagpole with an American flag attached. With that attack and my mother’s death, a lifetime of frustrations reached the breaking point.

My odyssey 26 years ago was not unlike that of hundreds of thousands of blacks in the United States. The journey became my jihad--literally “struggle”--waged not for political power or economic enfranchisement but for control over my own soul.

Christianity did not offer a complete way of life the way Islam did. Attending mass once a week and calling it religion failed to satisfy my spiritual needs. Islam offered a code of conduct on how to run my daily life and how to communicate with God. Prostrating in prayer five times a day as a Muslim offered me more solace than I had ever found kneeling before a crucifix.

In 1974, as now, in the Roxburys and Harlems across America, only liquor stores outnumbered churches in vying for blacks’ attention, and in my opinion, both stupefied millions of black Americans.

Islam, as I was familiar with it, seemed the perfect way to fight back. As a religion, it offered clear-cut guidelines for living; as a social movement, it stood for a pride born of culture and discipline.

Before my mom died, I had dipped into Malcolm X’s autobiography. After she passed, I plunged into it. Malcolm had undergone a metamorphosis: from hoodlum to cleaned-up spokesman for the Nation of Islam and finally a convert to orthodox Islam, and through his own transformation he had shown that change, even from the most miserable beginnings, was possible.

Of course, Malcolm’s life and mine were very different. He had discovered Islam in prison. I discovered it in college. He was the spokesman for a black theocratic visionary. I held down a mid-level white-collar job in a Fortune 500 company. Still, I felt a kinship with Malcolm and the Black Muslims. The color of our skin made us all cargo in a sinking ship, and Islam beckoned like a life preserver.

Two and a half decades ago in Boston and New York, however, there were few orthodox mosques. In black neighborhoods, one institution, the Nation of Islam, dominated in the teaching of Islam, or, rather, a homegrown version of it. Many blacks who converted took to the Nation’s teachings--its admonitions to self-love and racial solidarity, its belief in productivity and entrepreneurship. And with equal ardor, they also took to the Nation’s other teachings--its racial chauvinism and belief that white people were genetically inferior, intrinsically evil “blue-eyed devils” who had been created to practice “tricknology” against blacks.

Using the twin motivators of myth and pride, Elijah Muhammad built the Nation into one of the largest black economic and religious organizations American had seen. It claimed a heavyweight boxing champion the whole world adored, Muhammad Ali. Its women looked like angels in their veils, crisp white jackets, and ankle-length skirts; its men cut no-nonsense yet gallant figures in their smart dark suits and trademark bow ties. But sitting in the Nation’s Roxbury temple was like being on a jury listening to a closing argument. The defendants (in absentia): white folks. The prosecutor: a dapper minister who practically spat, saying whites were so utterly devilish that their religion was grotesquely symbolized by a “symbol of death and destruction”--the crucifix. The charge: perpetrating dastardly deeds on blacks “in the name of Christianity.” The verdict: guilty.

I barely lasted my one visit. To me, demonizing the “enemy” as the Nation did hardly seemed the best way to learn to “love thyself.” Anyway, I abhorred the idea of colorizing God, or limiting godly attributes to one race. And though Elijah deserved credit for redeeming legions of blacks from dope and crime when all else, including Christianity, had failed them, I didn’t believe that earned him the title of Allah’s “messenger.”

So I moved to New York and became an orthodox Muslim in the manner all converts do: I declared before Muslim witnesses my belief in Allah and my faith that the Prophet Muhammad of Arabia was His very last messenger. I entered a Sunni mosque and prostrated myself on rugs beside people of all ethnicities.

Here was what I deemed a truer Islam--the orthodoxy to which Malcolm had switched, the one most of Elijah’s followers opted for when the Nation of Islam waned after his death, the Islam to which most of America’s 135,000 annual converts, 80% to 90% of them black, belong.

On a plane to Senegal I sat next to a black American wearing a traditional Arab robe. The man was headed to meet an imam, his spiritual leader, a black African Muslim. I later met other black Americans who had spent years in Africa studying Islam. Through research, I found that up to 35 percent of enslaved blacks brought to the New World were Muslim. In converting, many black Americans may have been simply returning to the religion of their forefathers.

Over the years, I have come to understand what should have been obvious long ago--that Jesus had not forsaken my mother. She died because God had willed it, regardless of what form my prayers took. I hadn’t rejected Christianity so much as embraced Islam.

[Haqqani]

Novi muslimani i njihov prvi ramazan


ABU DHABI, 14 Novembar (IslamOnline) - Post u prvom Ramazanu je uzbudljiv događaj, posebno za malu djecu koja se trude da ispunjavaju vjerske dužnosti kao njihovi roditelji. Ali doživljaj je još uzbudljiviji za muškarce i žene koji su tek primili Islam i koju su počeli sa ramazanom u svojim 40-tim.

Šta novi muslimani kažu o islamu i ramazanu? Kako su gledali na ramazan prije prelaska na islam? Kako se osjećaju sada kada su postali muslimani?

IslamOnline se je sreo u UAE sa nekoliko ljudi koji su nedavno prihvatili islam i koji poste svoj prvi ramazan.

"Ja sam se ismijavao Ramazanu i pojmu islamskog posta. Ismijavao sam Muslimane koji su postom mučili svoja tjela," kaže Marcos, sada Ahmed Moamen. "U Emiratima sam živio 9 godina kao tradicionalni kršćanin, u crkvu sam išao neredovno. Za mene i moje prijatelje, Ramazan je bio košmar. U tom mjesecu bili smo ograničeni na naše kuće jer su sve kafane bile zatvorene," sjeća se Ahmed. "Ovo nije jedina stvar zbog koje sam mrzio Ramazan, nego i zbog toga kako se ljudi ophode prema svojim tjelima i dušama. Mislio sam da tijelo ima potreba kojima se mora udovoljiti. Zbog toga Ramazan sam shvaćao kao bespotrebno i nelogično mučenje," prisjeća se Moamen, Filipinac, onoga što on označava kao "loši" stari dani.

"Prije 5 mjeseci Allah me je uputio u islam. Dugo vremena sam imao jednog cimera, koji je prešao na islam, i koji je pokušavao da i mene okrene. Mi smo dugo vremena raspravljali o islam i on mi je dao nekoliko knjiga o islamu dok Svemilosni nije otvorio moje srce za Islam. Danas sam u prilici da postim prvi Ramazan svog života, " kaže Moamen.

"Nakon što me je Allah uputio u Islam i nakon što sam postio nekoliko dana Ramazana, spoznao sam da su moje ideje o pravima tijela bile pogrešne i da usmjeravanje naših tijela ka određenom cilju, jednom godišnje, je velika mudrost. Zbog toga nam je Allah naredio da postimo jedan mjesec a ne čitavu godinu. Post približava muslimana Allahu. Ne pretjerujem kada kažem da osjećam bistrinu koju nisam nikada prije osjećao u svom životu, " završava Moamen.

Abdurrahman Jusuf, Libanonac, koji je prije prelaska na Islam nosio ime Tony, također posti svoj prvi ramazan. Sa radošću Jusuf kaže da je presretan i da mu je post pomogao da osjeti smiraj koji samo postač može osjetiti.

"Čim me je Allah uputio u islam, počeo sam da postim ponedjeljkom i četvrtkom, sljedeći sunnet Muhammeda saws, da bih se očistio od grijeha koje sam počinio prije primanja islama," kaže on. "Ali post u Ramazanu je skroz drugačiji jer Sveti Mjesec ima svoju osobenu duhovnost i smiraj, koji se ne može naći van drugih mjeseci," kaže Jusuf.

"Čak i namazi su drugačiji u Ramazanu," kaže on, dodajući da Allah višestruko nagrađuje dobra djela urađena u Ramazanu i da oslobađa ljude od vatre. Jusuf se žali na to da je u prošlosti nailazio na loše muslimane, pogotovo za vrijeme građanskog rata u Libanonu. On danas moli Allaha da mu oprosti prijašnja loša djela. Carol Anoi je odrasla u protestantskoj porodici u Škotskoj. Svoje djetinjstvo je provela na selu, gdje je imala mogućnosti da razmišlja o mnogim stvarima. Nakon što je završila školu u Londonu, dobila je posao u Emiratima, gdje se nalazi već nekoliko godina. Tu je upoznala i jednog arapa muslimana. "Voljela sam ga i sa njim sam puno pričala o islamu. Sa njim sa pročitala dosta knjiga o islamu na engleskom," kaže Carol, koja je nakon prelaska na Islam uzela ime Fatima. "Shvatila sam da je Islam prava vjera koja uzdiže čovjeka i koja se brine o pravima muškaraca, žena i djece," dodaje ona. "Islam smatram vjerom koja je u harmoniji sa ljudskom prirodom," kaže Fatima. "Kada čitam Kuran časni, u njemu nalazim sve odgovore na pitanja koja zaokupljaju moje misli. Napokon sam prešla na islam i mi [ ona i njezin arapski poznanik ] smo se vjenčali," prisjeća se ona. "Što se tiče Ramazana, ne mogu Vam opisati kako sam radosna da postim u Ramazanu ove godine. Ramazanska atmosfera nas približuje Allahu. Pošto je to mjesec namaza, mi provodimo što više vremena u približavanju Allahu kroz ovaj način ibadeta," dodaje Fatima. "Ne mogu opisati svoju radosti kada klanjam terawih-namaz sa drugim muslimankama," kaže ona i žali se na to da u drugim danima, van Ramazana, džamije nisu tako pune.

Amina Jordon, prije prelaska na Islam Caroline Jordon, iz Južne Afrike kaže da bila privučena smirajem koji se reflektuje u pokretima muslimana prilikom namaza. "Post je lijepa prilika duševnog uzdignuća i to su bile stvari koje su me vodile ka Islamu," kaže Amina. "Post i Ramazan su ibadeti koje najviše volim i koji su najbliži mome srcu," dodaje ona. "Najveći dio svoga života tražila sam duševni smiraj. Posjećivala sam razne kurseve meditiranja i čitala sam mnogo o orijentalnoj filozofiji ali se nikad nisam osjećala zadovoljnom. Svoje studije sam završila u Emiratima i desilo se da sam živjela pored komšija muslimana koji su savjesno izvršavali namaze. "Ja sam sjedila i posmtrala njihov 'ruku' i 'sedždu' i to mi se je posebno dojmilo jer ruku i sedžda su izvrsne vježbe za tjelo i dušu," navodi Amina. Ona je klanjala i činila ruku i sedždu čak prije nego je postala muslimanka.

"Osjećala sam smiraj, kojeg nisam prije osjetila i od tog trenutka počela sam sama za sebe da istražujem šta je to Islam dok me Allah nije uveo u Njegovu vjeru i danas sam prezadovoljna jer osjećam potpuni duševni smiraj," kaže Amina na kraju.

[Haqqani]

Posto je lik pod nickom " Sisaju me " izrazio zelju da nastavim sa ovom temom , idemo dalje.



Svjedočenje jednog Nijemca koji je studirao kršćansku teologiju, a potom prešao na islam.


Pogledajte :

http://islam.dzemat.org/modules.php?nam ... =0&thold=0

[Haqqani]

CAROLYNE





Pogledajte :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu54C-qw ... ed&search=

[shuriken]

a nemojmo zaboraviti da ima i ljudi koji se ne pridrzavaju svoje vjere
pa prisiljavaju ljude da predju na islam pod prijetnjom oruzjem

tesko je zamisliti da i to postoji, ali postoji

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005815.htm

prilicno apsurdno

[Haqqani]

ANGELA COLINS




Pogledajte:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... ela+colins

[shuriken]

evo dvojica su presla i njih je postedilo
a jedan nije pa su ga ubili
prestrasno
any comments?


Making Deals With the Devil

by Chris Roach | Sep 3, 2006 | 9 comments

David Warren writes something about the recently released Fox News journalists that is harsh, but needs to be said:


[T]he large is often most visible in the small.

The degree to which our starch is awash is exhibited in the behaviour of so many of our captives, but especially in these two. They were told to convert to Islam under implicit threat (blindfolded and hand-tied, they could not judge what threat), and agreed to make the propaganda broadcasts to guarantee their own safety. That much we can understand, as conventional cowardice. (Understand; not forgive.) But it is obvious from their later statements that they never thought twice; that they could see nothing wrong in serving the enemy, so long as it meant they’d be safe.

I assume they are not Christians (few journalists are), but had they ever been instructed in that faith, they might have grasped that conversion to Islam means denial of Christ, and that is something many millions of Christians (few of them intellectuals) have refused to do, even at the cost of excruciating deaths. Christianity still lives, because of such martyrs. Not suicide bombers: but truly defenceless martyrs.

You don’t necessarily have to be a Christian, to be Western. Two years ago, an heroic Italian captive, Fabrizio Quattrocchi, asked to make whimpering statements as part of the video of his execution in Iraq, ripped at his hood and instead declared, “This is how an Italian dies!” to his contemptible captors. He must have upset them: for they shot him instead of sawing off his head. In making his stand for human dignity, he also turned one of their propaganda videos, into one of ours.

But Quattrocchi had three friends, who all successfully begged for their lives. And the two Fox journalists, whom I will not stoop to name, begged for their lives even though, in retrospect, their lives probably weren’t in danger.

Why did Fatah bother to make the video? Didn’t they realize conversion under duress means nothing? That no one, East or West, would take it at face value?

They didn’t make it for face value. They made it to show the whole Muslim world, via satellite television, what wimps these Westerners are. That they’ll do anything at all to save their lives, that they don’t think twice about it. That is the substance of most Islamo-fascist propaganda: that the West consists of straw men, of men without chests, of men easily pushed over.

There are many causes to this degraded situation, but the most important one is the rise of materialism, the heretical belief that the material world, what we can see and measure and feel with our senses, is all that there is. No heaven. No God. No soul.

If you believe that, then there is no higher value than saving one's skin and maximizing one's pleasures. We see this on the political left, but we see it on the right as well. For the left, the manifestations are obvious: we need to prolong life at all costs, even at the expense of the lives of the unborn. We must create heaven on earth because this is all we have. If we consider the matter, we also see this tendency on the right, such as in the belief of an absolutist notion of economic freedom that makes no provision for the poor or in the endorsement of any injustice so long as it is aimed at the enemy in war time. The notion that justice might require us to risk lives and treasure to protect noncombatants (even those of another civilization) is dismissed as so much drivel.

And if you are a materialist that doesn't believe in God and Jesus and Divine Justice, I suppose that's a reasonable standpoint. It is, after all, the end point of the high pagan morality of Ancient Rome; unlike Christian civilization, it did not expand the orbit of moral responsibility to strangers and even one's enemies. Christianity releases us from the closed circle of materialism and, at the same time, provides supernatural guidance and strength so that men like St. Sebastian, St. Valentine, and St. Maximillian Kolbe, and women like St. Philomena, could go to their deaths even in the face of tortures and certain death rather than endorse a lie. I have been blessed without having to face this kind of trial. But I hope if I do I won't give up my dignity and deny the Faith of my Fathers.
9 comments - add your own
James N. Markels — Sep. 4, 06 at 10:01 AM

Wait a minute. Just because someone agrees to convert to Islam with their mouth doesn't mean they convert to Islam with their heart. I like what the Italian did, and I'll bet Islamists would have some second thoughts about things would every captured American act in the same way. But I'm not going to fault someone who has a family (especially kids) that rationally decides that life at the expense of a lie is better than a widow and bereft kids.

If those journalists were now praying to Mecca each day, well, then maybe you'd have something. But I really doubt that they are.
Roach — Sep. 4, 06 at 05:52 PM

You're undoubtedly right that the pro forma confession to save one's life was done here under durress and may have even been rational when the merely earthly interests of one's own life and family life are taken into account. I definitely have sympathy for them, but I think there is a broader point to at least consider: what things are worth dying for? What actions are so degrading and dishonorable that it is better to die than to perform them? For Christians, blasphemy is pretty high on the list.
Roach — Sep. 4, 06 at 05:54 PM

You're undoubtedly right that the pro forma confession to save one's life was done here under durress and may have even been rational when the merely earthly interests of one's own life and family life are taken into account. I definitely have sympathy for them, but I think there is a broader point to at least consider: what things are worth dying for? What actions are so degrading and dishonorable that it is better to die than to perform them? For Christians, blasphemy is pretty high on the list.
Vanishing American — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:11 AM

I wonder, too, about just what would be considered worth dying for. I've noticed that many people are saying they, too, would do whatever was necessary to stay alive. But where is the line there? Is betrayal of others OK to stay alive? Collaborating with enemies? Where is the line to be drawn?
And of course Christians, who believe that we are just passing through this world will see things differently than the agnostic or atheist. But I've just been troubled by the seeming lack of will to resist that has emerged in the discussions of this incident.
In the words of John Stuart Mill, ''A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.''
James N. Markels — Sep. 5, 06 at 09:16 AM

How is it blasphemy? Isn't God able to look at the situation objectively and know that the "conversion" is a fraud?
cl — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:15 PM

The real question is why the double standard? Why with one breath do we exclude journalist from being "American" or "Western", attacking them for being...well...journalist. And then say they are a representation of us and should just do what the good little Italian did?

I think that we have to face the facts...that America and by definition the "West" is not made up of card caring patriots forming a single-minded front. But instead it is the "lumpy pot" of un-melted ideas, religions, and philosophies that preclude us from ever forming a central front against such a strong ideology as Islam.

I am not surprised that the two Fox employees did what they did. I would expect, to be honest, that that would be result more seen...then the opposite. We are not a country of Christians. We are not a country of patriots. We are not what the neo-cons say we are. We are not even what the enemy says we are.

We are a country of diverse ideologies, religions, philosophies, life-styles, politics, and values. It is because of that we can not accomplish much. And why when push comes to shove we cannot put forth a single-minded strategy that is shared from the administration to the way a citizen of this country will respond when captured and coerced into converting while on camera.

And to be honest…I prefer it that way. But it sure does make it hard to fight a single-minded ideology sometimes.

cl
James N. Markels — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:52 PM

We can't accomplish much? We're the most dominant and successful economy and culture on the planet by a very wide margin!
malwords — Sep. 6, 06 at 02:00 PM

James: forget about religion for a sec. The propaganda value could be huge for the terrorists. Might prospective jihadists look at these two reporters as products of a weak, decadent culture and religion--thus encouraging more of the same.

With respect to religion: If you're a Chrisitan, you're required to witness the faith. That's why we celebrate Pentecost and the martyrs. Yes, anyone can say anything in a moment like that; those guys were scared to death, and that's forgivable. But if they were Christians, they were still wrong. Again, easily understood, but still wrong.

cl: "good little Italian did."
Those adjectives are pretty freaking callous.
James N. Markels — Sep. 7, 06 at 09:14 AM

I agree that if we all acted like a bunch of Spartans, with a damn-the-torpedoes "you get my name, rank, serial number, and an invitation to go to Hell" attitude, radical Islamists would be thinking twice about messing with us. Instead, they eat Big Macs, wear Levis, and think we're weak and decadent without realizing that they're slowly becoming just like us. We are like the Borg only with a much more insidious bedside manner.

[Haqqani]

evo dvojica su presla i njih je postedilo
a jedan nije pa su ga ubili
prestrasno
any comments?


Making Deals With the Devil

by Chris Roach | Sep 3, 2006 | 9 comments

David Warren writes something about the recently released Fox News journalists that is harsh, but needs to be said:


[T]he large is often most visible in the small.

The degree to which our starch is awash is exhibited in the behaviour of so many of our captives, but especially in these two. They were told to convert to Islam under implicit threat (blindfolded and hand-tied, they could not judge what threat), and agreed to make the propaganda broadcasts to guarantee their own safety. That much we can understand, as conventional cowardice. (Understand; not forgive.) But it is obvious from their later statements that they never thought twice; that they could see nothing wrong in serving the enemy, so long as it meant they’d be safe.

I assume they are not Christians (few journalists are), but had they ever been instructed in that faith, they might have grasped that conversion to Islam means denial of Christ, and that is something many millions of Christians (few of them intellectuals) have refused to do, even at the cost of excruciating deaths. Christianity still lives, because of such martyrs. Not suicide bombers: but truly defenceless martyrs.

You don’t necessarily have to be a Christian, to be Western. Two years ago, an heroic Italian captive, Fabrizio Quattrocchi, asked to make whimpering statements as part of the video of his execution in Iraq, ripped at his hood and instead declared, “This is how an Italian dies!” to his contemptible captors. He must have upset them: for they shot him instead of sawing off his head. In making his stand for human dignity, he also turned one of their propaganda videos, into one of ours.

But Quattrocchi had three friends, who all successfully begged for their lives. And the two Fox journalists, whom I will not stoop to name, begged for their lives even though, in retrospect, their lives probably weren’t in danger.

Why did Fatah bother to make the video? Didn’t they realize conversion under duress means nothing? That no one, East or West, would take it at face value?

They didn’t make it for face value. They made it to show the whole Muslim world, via satellite television, what wimps these Westerners are. That they’ll do anything at all to save their lives, that they don’t think twice about it. That is the substance of most Islamo-fascist propaganda: that the West consists of straw men, of men without chests, of men easily pushed over.

There are many causes to this degraded situation, but the most important one is the rise of materialism, the heretical belief that the material world, what we can see and measure and feel with our senses, is all that there is. No heaven. No God. No soul.

If you believe that, then there is no higher value than saving one's skin and maximizing one's pleasures. We see this on the political left, but we see it on the right as well. For the left, the manifestations are obvious: we need to prolong life at all costs, even at the expense of the lives of the unborn. We must create heaven on earth because this is all we have. If we consider the matter, we also see this tendency on the right, such as in the belief of an absolutist notion of economic freedom that makes no provision for the poor or in the endorsement of any injustice so long as it is aimed at the enemy in war time. The notion that justice might require us to risk lives and treasure to protect noncombatants (even those of another civilization) is dismissed as so much drivel.

And if you are a materialist that doesn't believe in God and Jesus and Divine Justice, I suppose that's a reasonable standpoint. It is, after all, the end point of the high pagan morality of Ancient Rome; unlike Christian civilization, it did not expand the orbit of moral responsibility to strangers and even one's enemies. Christianity releases us from the closed circle of materialism and, at the same time, provides supernatural guidance and strength so that men like St. Sebastian, St. Valentine, and St. Maximillian Kolbe, and women like St. Philomena, could go to their deaths even in the face of tortures and certain death rather than endorse a lie. I have been blessed without having to face this kind of trial. But I hope if I do I won't give up my dignity and deny the Faith of my Fathers.
9 comments - add your own
James N. Markels — Sep. 4, 06 at 10:01 AM

Wait a minute. Just because someone agrees to convert to Islam with their mouth doesn't mean they convert to Islam with their heart. I like what the Italian did, and I'll bet Islamists would have some second thoughts about things would every captured American act in the same way. But I'm not going to fault someone who has a family (especially kids) that rationally decides that life at the expense of a lie is better than a widow and bereft kids.

If those journalists were now praying to Mecca each day, well, then maybe you'd have something. But I really doubt that they are.
Roach — Sep. 4, 06 at 05:52 PM

You're undoubtedly right that the pro forma confession to save one's life was done here under durress and may have even been rational when the merely earthly interests of one's own life and family life are taken into account. I definitely have sympathy for them, but I think there is a broader point to at least consider: what things are worth dying for? What actions are so degrading and dishonorable that it is better to die than to perform them? For Christians, blasphemy is pretty high on the list.
Roach — Sep. 4, 06 at 05:54 PM

You're undoubtedly right that the pro forma confession to save one's life was done here under durress and may have even been rational when the merely earthly interests of one's own life and family life are taken into account. I definitely have sympathy for them, but I think there is a broader point to at least consider: what things are worth dying for? What actions are so degrading and dishonorable that it is better to die than to perform them? For Christians, blasphemy is pretty high on the list.
Vanishing American — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:11 AM

I wonder, too, about just what would be considered worth dying for. I've noticed that many people are saying they, too, would do whatever was necessary to stay alive. But where is the line there? Is betrayal of others OK to stay alive? Collaborating with enemies? Where is the line to be drawn?
And of course Christians, who believe that we are just passing through this world will see things differently than the agnostic or atheist. But I've just been troubled by the seeming lack of will to resist that has emerged in the discussions of this incident.
In the words of John Stuart Mill, ''A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.''
James N. Markels — Sep. 5, 06 at 09:16 AM

How is it blasphemy? Isn't God able to look at the situation objectively and know that the "conversion" is a fraud?
cl — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:15 PM

The real question is why the double standard? Why with one breath do we exclude journalist from being "American" or "Western", attacking them for being...well...journalist. And then say they are a representation of us and should just do what the good little Italian did?

I think that we have to face the facts...that America and by definition the "West" is not made up of card caring patriots forming a single-minded front. But instead it is the "lumpy pot" of un-melted ideas, religions, and philosophies that preclude us from ever forming a central front against such a strong ideology as Islam.

I am not surprised that the two Fox employees did what they did. I would expect, to be honest, that that would be result more seen...then the opposite. We are not a country of Christians. We are not a country of patriots. We are not what the neo-cons say we are. We are not even what the enemy says we are.

We are a country of diverse ideologies, religions, philosophies, life-styles, politics, and values. It is because of that we can not accomplish much. And why when push comes to shove we cannot put forth a single-minded strategy that is shared from the administration to the way a citizen of this country will respond when captured and coerced into converting while on camera.

And to be honest…I prefer it that way. But it sure does make it hard to fight a single-minded ideology sometimes.

cl
James N. Markels — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:52 PM

We can't accomplish much? We're the most dominant and successful economy and culture on the planet by a very wide margin!
malwords — Sep. 6, 06 at 02:00 PM

James: forget about religion for a sec. The propaganda value could be huge for the terrorists. Might prospective jihadists look at these two reporters as products of a weak, decadent culture and religion--thus encouraging more of the same.

With respect to religion: If you're a Chrisitan, you're required to witness the faith. That's why we celebrate Pentecost and the martyrs. Yes, anyone can say anything in a moment like that; those guys were scared to death, and that's forgivable. But if they were Christians, they were still wrong. Again, easily understood, but still wrong.

cl: "good little Italian did."
Those adjectives are pretty freaking callous.
James N. Markels — Sep. 7, 06 at 09:14 AM

I agree that if we all acted like a bunch of Spartans, with a damn-the-torpedoes "you get my name, rank, serial number, and an invitation to go to Hell" attitude, radical Islamists would be thinking twice about messing with us. Instead, they eat Big Macs, wear Levis, and think we're weak and decadent without realizing that they're slowly becoming just like us. We are like the Borg only with a much more insidious bedside manner.

(2:256)

U vjeri nema prisiljavanja - Pravi put se jasno razlikuje od zablude! Onaj ko ne vjeruje u šejtana, a vjeruje u Allaha - drži se za najčvršću vezu, koja se neće prekinuti. - A Allah sve čuje i zna.

[Haqqani]

Poljak Muhammed govori o svom prelasku na islam




Pogledajte:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UfGpRwVqOY

[shuriken]

znam ja to
ali tema je prelasci na Islam
a nazalost osim ovih lijepih primjera
koji se ovdje postiraju
ima i prelazaka na Islam koji se odvijaju po drugacijem scenariju

cinjenica da je Kuran Časni to zabranio
nazalost ne znaci da se to ne desava

takvi dogadjaji nanose vise stete Islamu nego svi ovi pozitivni
po jednostavnoj logici medija koji trebaju upecatljiv ili sokantan naslov

ali me zanima fenomenoloski i pravno
sta mogu ljudi koji znaju puno o prelascima
i prate prelaske, kao sto vidimo iz ovih postova
reci o takvim prelascima,
osim da ponove da su takva djela nedopustena, jer to svi znamo
i da ne smije biti prisile

sta se dogadja sa ljudima koji tako predju?
da li neki ostanu u islamskoj vjeri?
da li se takav prelazak smatra validnim?
sta se dogadja sa pociniteljima takvih djela, ima li umma kakav stav o tome?
kako imami i muftije komentiraju takve dogadjaje, osim sto isticu da ne smije biti prisile?
Koja je pravedna kazna za pocinitelje takvih djela, nasilja i nad osobom i nad zajednicom u kojoj se desava?

Unaprijed zahvaljujem na odgovoru

[SiSaJuMe]

evo dvojica su presla i njih je postedilo
a jedan nije pa su ga ubili
prestrasno
any comments?


Making Deals With the Devil

by Chris Roach | Sep 3, 2006 | 9 comments

David Warren writes something about the recently released Fox News journalists that is harsh, but needs to be said:


[T]he large is often most visible in the small.

The degree to which our starch is awash is exhibited in the behaviour of so many of our captives, but especially in these two. They were told to convert to Islam under implicit threat (blindfolded and hand-tied, they could not judge what threat), and agreed to make the propaganda broadcasts to guarantee their own safety. That much we can understand, as conventional cowardice. (Understand; not forgive.) But it is obvious from their later statements that they never thought twice; that they could see nothing wrong in serving the enemy, so long as it meant they’d be safe.

I assume they are not Christians (few journalists are), but had they ever been instructed in that faith, they might have grasped that conversion to Islam means denial of Christ, and that is something many millions of Christians (few of them intellectuals) have refused to do, even at the cost of excruciating deaths. Christianity still lives, because of such martyrs. Not suicide bombers: but truly defenceless martyrs.

You don’t necessarily have to be a Christian, to be Western. Two years ago, an heroic Italian captive, Fabrizio Quattrocchi, asked to make whimpering statements as part of the video of his execution in Iraq, ripped at his hood and instead declared, “This is how an Italian dies!” to his contemptible captors. He must have upset them: for they shot him instead of sawing off his head. In making his stand for human dignity, he also turned one of their propaganda videos, into one of ours.

But Quattrocchi had three friends, who all successfully begged for their lives. And the two Fox journalists, whom I will not stoop to name, begged for their lives even though, in retrospect, their lives probably weren’t in danger.

Why did Fatah bother to make the video? Didn’t they realize conversion under duress means nothing? That no one, East or West, would take it at face value?

They didn’t make it for face value. They made it to show the whole Muslim world, via satellite television, what wimps these Westerners are. That they’ll do anything at all to save their lives, that they don’t think twice about it. That is the substance of most Islamo-fascist propaganda: that the West consists of straw men, of men without chests, of men easily pushed over.

There are many causes to this degraded situation, but the most important one is the rise of materialism, the heretical belief that the material world, what we can see and measure and feel with our senses, is all that there is. No heaven. No God. No soul.

If you believe that, then there is no higher value than saving one's skin and maximizing one's pleasures. We see this on the political left, but we see it on the right as well. For the left, the manifestations are obvious: we need to prolong life at all costs, even at the expense of the lives of the unborn. We must create heaven on earth because this is all we have. If we consider the matter, we also see this tendency on the right, such as in the belief of an absolutist notion of economic freedom that makes no provision for the poor or in the endorsement of any injustice so long as it is aimed at the enemy in war time. The notion that justice might require us to risk lives and treasure to protect noncombatants (even those of another civilization) is dismissed as so much drivel.

And if you are a materialist that doesn't believe in God and Jesus and Divine Justice, I suppose that's a reasonable standpoint. It is, after all, the end point of the high pagan morality of Ancient Rome; unlike Christian civilization, it did not expand the orbit of moral responsibility to strangers and even one's enemies. Christianity releases us from the closed circle of materialism and, at the same time, provides supernatural guidance and strength so that men like St. Sebastian, St. Valentine, and St. Maximillian Kolbe, and women like St. Philomena, could go to their deaths even in the face of tortures and certain death rather than endorse a lie. I have been blessed without having to face this kind of trial. But I hope if I do I won't give up my dignity and deny the Faith of my Fathers.
9 comments - add your own
James N. Markels — Sep. 4, 06 at 10:01 AM

Wait a minute. Just because someone agrees to convert to Islam with their mouth doesn't mean they convert to Islam with their heart. I like what the Italian did, and I'll bet Islamists would have some second thoughts about things would every captured American act in the same way. But I'm not going to fault someone who has a family (especially kids) that rationally decides that life at the expense of a lie is better than a widow and bereft kids.

If those journalists were now praying to Mecca each day, well, then maybe you'd have something. But I really doubt that they are.
Roach — Sep. 4, 06 at 05:52 PM

You're undoubtedly right that the pro forma confession to save one's life was done here under durress and may have even been rational when the merely earthly interests of one's own life and family life are taken into account. I definitely have sympathy for them, but I think there is a broader point to at least consider: what things are worth dying for? What actions are so degrading and dishonorable that it is better to die than to perform them? For Christians, blasphemy is pretty high on the list.
Roach — Sep. 4, 06 at 05:54 PM

You're undoubtedly right that the pro forma confession to save one's life was done here under durress and may have even been rational when the merely earthly interests of one's own life and family life are taken into account. I definitely have sympathy for them, but I think there is a broader point to at least consider: what things are worth dying for? What actions are so degrading and dishonorable that it is better to die than to perform them? For Christians, blasphemy is pretty high on the list.
Vanishing American — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:11 AM

I wonder, too, about just what would be considered worth dying for. I've noticed that many people are saying they, too, would do whatever was necessary to stay alive. But where is the line there? Is betrayal of others OK to stay alive? Collaborating with enemies? Where is the line to be drawn?
And of course Christians, who believe that we are just passing through this world will see things differently than the agnostic or atheist. But I've just been troubled by the seeming lack of will to resist that has emerged in the discussions of this incident.
In the words of John Stuart Mill, ''A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.''
James N. Markels — Sep. 5, 06 at 09:16 AM

How is it blasphemy? Isn't God able to look at the situation objectively and know that the "conversion" is a fraud?
cl — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:15 PM

The real question is why the double standard? Why with one breath do we exclude journalist from being "American" or "Western", attacking them for being...well...journalist. And then say they are a representation of us and should just do what the good little Italian did?

I think that we have to face the facts...that America and by definition the "West" is not made up of card caring patriots forming a single-minded front. But instead it is the "lumpy pot" of un-melted ideas, religions, and philosophies that preclude us from ever forming a central front against such a strong ideology as Islam.

I am not surprised that the two Fox employees did what they did. I would expect, to be honest, that that would be result more seen...then the opposite. We are not a country of Christians. We are not a country of patriots. We are not what the neo-cons say we are. We are not even what the enemy says we are.

We are a country of diverse ideologies, religions, philosophies, life-styles, politics, and values. It is because of that we can not accomplish much. And why when push comes to shove we cannot put forth a single-minded strategy that is shared from the administration to the way a citizen of this country will respond when captured and coerced into converting while on camera.

And to be honest…I prefer it that way. But it sure does make it hard to fight a single-minded ideology sometimes.

cl
James N. Markels — Sep. 5, 06 at 12:52 PM

We can't accomplish much? We're the most dominant and successful economy and culture on the planet by a very wide margin!
malwords — Sep. 6, 06 at 02:00 PM

James: forget about religion for a sec. The propaganda value could be huge for the terrorists. Might prospective jihadists look at these two reporters as products of a weak, decadent culture and religion--thus encouraging more of the same.

With respect to religion: If you're a Chrisitan, you're required to witness the faith. That's why we celebrate Pentecost and the martyrs. Yes, anyone can say anything in a moment like that; those guys were scared to death, and that's forgivable. But if they were Christians, they were still wrong. Again, easily understood, but still wrong.

cl: "good little Italian did."
Those adjectives are pretty freaking callous.
James N. Markels — Sep. 7, 06 at 09:14 AM

I agree that if we all acted like a bunch of Spartans, with a damn-the-torpedoes "you get my name, rank, serial number, and an invitation to go to Hell" attitude, radical Islamists would be thinking twice about messing with us. Instead, they eat Big Macs, wear Levis, and think we're weak and decadent without realizing that they're slowly becoming just like us. We are like the Borg only with a much more insidious bedside manner.

(2:256)

U vjeri nema prisiljavanja - Pravi put se jasno razlikuje od zablude! Onaj ko ne vjeruje u šejtana, a vjeruje u Allaha - drži se za najčvršću vezu, koja se neće prekinuti. - A Allah sve čuje i zna.

Naleti na sljedeci tekst pa me interesuje Haqqani tvoje misljenje:

U Kur'anu se navodi da u vjeri nema prisile:

2. 256. U vjeru nije dozvoljeno silom nagoniti – pravi put se jasno razlikuje od zablude! Onaj ko ne vjeruje u šejtana, a vjeruje u Allaha – drži se za najcvršcu vezu, koja se nece prekinuti. – A Allah sve cuje i zna.

Sve bi ?? bilo u redu da sledeci citati ne govore nešto sasvim suprotno:

9. 5. Kada produ sveti mjeseci, ubijajte mnogobošce gdje god ih nadete, zarobljavajte ih, opsjedajte i na svakom prolazu docekujte! Pa ako se pokaju i budu molitvu obavljali i zekat davali, ostavite ih na miru, jer Allah zaista prašta i samilostan je.

Odobrava se ubijanje mnogobožaca ali ako postanu muslimani i budu obavljali vjerske dužnosti kao što su molitva i davanje milostinje, onda im se oprašta i ne progoni ih se. Ne treba li bolji primjer prisile u vjeri nego ovaj citat?

Potom:
Bukhari:V4B52N260: "Poslanik je rekao, 'Ako musliman napusti svoju vjeru, ubijte ga.' "


????????????? Ovo me dovodi u sumlju?

[Beslija]

Haqqani , svaka cast lave....samo tako nastavi.

Pogotovo su me iznenadili ovi vojnici u Iraqu sto su presli na Islam.....Interesantno.

Svaka cast jos jednom!

[ndzlatar]

Malo ti to bolje procitaj. Ti vojnici nisu presli na islam jer u vjeri nema prisile, a oni su "presli" pod prisilom.
@SisajuMe a o tom hadisu vec ima citav topic

Haqqani , svaka cast lave....samo tako nastavi.

Pogotovo su me iznenadili ovi vojnici u Iraqu sto su presli na Islam.....Interesantno.

Svaka cast jos jednom!

[Haqqani]

Naleti na sljedeci tekst pa me interesuje Haqqani tvoje misljenje:

U Kur'anu se navodi da u vjeri nema prisile:

2. 256. U vjeru nije dozvoljeno silom nagoniti – pravi put se jasno razlikuje od zablude! Onaj ko ne vjeruje u šejtana, a vjeruje u Allaha – drži se za najcvršcu vezu, koja se nece prekinuti. – A Allah sve cuje i zna.

Sve bi ?? bilo u redu da sledeci citati ne govore nešto sasvim suprotno:

9. 5. Kada produ sveti mjeseci, ubijajte mnogobošce gdje god ih nadete, zarobljavajte ih, opsjedajte i na svakom prolazu docekujte! Pa ako se pokaju i budu molitvu obavljali i zekat davali, ostavite ih na miru, jer Allah zaista prašta i samilostan je.

Odobrava se ubijanje mnogobožaca ali ako postanu muslimani i budu obavljali vjerske dužnosti kao što su molitva i davanje milostinje, onda im se oprašta i ne progoni ih se. Ne treba li bolji primjer prisile u vjeri nego ovaj citat?

Potom:
Bukhari:V4B52N260: "Poslanik je rekao, 'Ako musliman napusti svoju vjeru, ubijte ga.' "


????????????? Ovo me dovodi u sumlju?

http://www.dzemat.org/knjige/Tafsir_IK/009.pdf

[Haqqani]

“Svećenik po imenu Muhammed”


Putevi ljudi ka islamu su različiti i neobični. Neobična je i njihova prošlost. Filipinac Muhammed ( Estanislao ) Soria, spada sigurno među njih. On je bivši katolički svećenik i uposlenik na katoličkom univerzitetu u Manili, gdje je asisitirao na seminaru gdje su se podučavali budući katolički ‘dušebrižnici’. Od 02. septembra 2002 on je musliman. Filipinski internet portal “inq7.net” je juče donio priču o njemu pod naslovom: “Svećenik po imenu Muhammed”.

Na islam je prešao sa 62 godine. Početak zanimanja za Islam bila je izjava upravnika Mindanaoa, Nur Misuarija da su svi stanovnici tog ostrva nekada bili muslimani. Estanislao, koji je u to vrijeme radio na univerzitetu, je htio da sa historijskim i sociološkim argumentima pobije ovu izjavu. I za vrijeme svojih istraživanja uočio je još nešto: “Sve te stvari koje su se vezale za muslimane, nisu bile tačne. U stvari, kolonijalisti su ugnjetavali muslimane.” “Muslimane sam smatrao glupima i neobavještenim i htio sam da ih preobratim u kršćanstvo. Ali na kraju je ispalo obrnuto.”

Za vrijeme tog istraživanja u ruke mu je došlo evanđelje po Barnabi, koje je crkva proglasila apokrifnim. U njemu se spominje da Isus a.s. nije umro na križu nego da je živ uzdignut na nebo, a da je mjesto njega razapet neko drugi – učenje koje je blisko islamskom. Također to evanđelje najavljuje dolazak i Muhammeda s.a.w.s.

Soria kaže da su se sumnje u katoličanstvo javile prije nego je i postao katolički svećenik. Ali uprkos tome zaredio se kao svećenik 1988 godine. Sumnje u trojstvo su posebno rasle kada je radio u crkvama gdje je predvodio liturgije.

Prelazak na katolički univerzitet mu je olakšao da sprovede svoju odluku u djelo: da postane musliman. Spominje da ga niko nije mogao odvratiti od odluke da pređe na islam: „pa čak ni sam đavo,” kaže on. Nije bilo jednostavno obznaniti svoju namjeru, i to u jednoj zemlji, koja se smatra nosiocem katoličanstva u jugoistočnoj Aziji. “Moja porodica je bila uzdrmana mojim prelaskom na islam, da nisu htjeli pričati sa mnom. Moj stariji brat me u teoriji poštuje, ali u stvari on me samo toleriše.”
Zanimljivo da ga je u njegovoj odluci podržao Robert Freyes, jedan drugi katolički teolog, kod kojeg je Estanislao-Muhammed bio asistent na fakultetu.

Danas je Muhammed član filipinskog da’wa pokreta. Već je obavio hadž i prošle godine se oženio. Do tada je kao svećenik živio “iskrenim celibatskim životom”, ali prelaskom na islam zamjenio je ovaj asketizam kojeg su ljudi izmislili, kur’anskim učenjem da je seksualnost Allahov dar.

Muhammed ulaže napore da smanji tenzije između katolika i muslimana koji su izbili nakon ubistva vođe ebu Sajjafa, grupe koja se bori za samostalnost Mindanaoa, prošle hefte. “Gledano historijski, terorizam su uvjek vršili oni koji su imali vlast. Ovo je bio slučaj i sa španskim kolonizatorima Filipina. Oni su domaće stanovništvo nazivali ‘teroristima’. Za Špance, Jose Rizal i Andres Bonifacio su bili teroristi. Danas su oni filipinski nacionalni junaci.” kaže on.

Iako je promjenio svoje ime u Muhammed, ljudi ga još uvjek zovu “otac Stan”, pa čak i neki muslimani. “Moji arapski prijatelji su mi rekli da ne bih trebao da mjenjam ime, da ljudi znaju da sam katolički svećenik koji je prešao na Islam.”

[Haqqani]

Crystal - How I came to Islam





Pogledajte :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB_2GlzgpUM

[Haqqani]

Fidelma `O Leary ( Biology profesor )




Pogledajte :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_foBQRmV ... ed&search=

[Haqqani]

Latifa ( Rachel )





Pogledajte :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw_YkbJn ... 20Religion

[Svemirski_Jebach]

...preusmjerio si poentu....nego....da li ti stvarno misliš da svaki vjernik radi nagrade ili kazne čini ono što čini.....nagrada može da dolazi kao posljedica....

Hajd nam dodaj te kategorije koje nisu ni nagrada ni kazna... Sadržaj (veći dio) se vrti oko toga da ako A onda B inače C...

A= postupak
B= nagrada
C= kazna

iznervirali ste me pravo...morm vam objasnjavati ovako jednostavne pojmove, ko djeci kakvoj.

nego, postoji mnostvo kategorija koje nisu ni nagrada ni kazna. Postoje neutralne radnje u zivotu svakog covjeka koje ne idu niti kao dobro djelo niti kao grijeh. Dakle za takvo djelo se niti dobija nagrada niti dobija kazna. Primjer za to jeste npr. odigrati kosarke u parku sa rajom. Ili otici na izlet ili bilo sta slicno.

Dakle, veliki veliki broj radnji ne pripada tvojom formuli A slijedi B inace C. U ovu formulu se mogu ubrojati samo one radnje koje su naredjene, bilo pozitivno kao naredbe u uzem smislu ili negativno tj. kao zabrane.

Sve ostalo izlazi izvan tvoje kategorije.

Naravno mislim da je teza po kojoj vjernici nesto dobro rade samo zbog straha od boga ili zelje da mu udovolje (prema tome manje vrijedno dobro) dok eto, ateisti rade dobro zato sto su dobri (i prema tome njihovo dobro je vrijednije) je jedna od najsmijesnijih teza koje sam ikad procitao, a koje se dozivljavaju ozbiljnim.

Postoji mnogo problema oko navedene teorije i naravno to cu ostaviti za neku drugu priliku, neki clanak ili slicno.
Ovdje bi samo htio dotaknuti jedan od tih problema.

Nazalost, mnogi koji se predstavljaju kao vjernici ne znaju da daju logican i neemocionalan argument spomenutoj teoriji.

Dakle, potpuno je apsurdno postaviti pocetnu tezu da ateisti ne vjeruju ni u sta. Oni zasigurno ne vjeruju u Boga, onakvog kakvim ga religije predstavljaju. Svaki sociolog ce se sloziti da svaka osoba, dakle i ateista, ima odredjeni sistem vrijednosti po kome se ravnaju njegovi ili njeni postupci. Vjernik takodje ima isti sistem koji je odredjen ili nadopunjen priznavanjem i vjerovanjem u Bozije sveprisustvo.

Teorija koju se cesto cuje u posljednje vrijeme upotrebljavaju mnogi u nedostatku vlastitih smislenih argumenata. Mogao bi se sloziti sa zakljuckom da ako uzmemo gotovo savrsenog vjernika i postavimo mu izbor u smislu sta uraditi u jednoj situaciji sigurno ce njegov izbor biti rezultat svijesti u Bogu u manjoj ili vecoj mjeri. Ta svijest o Bogu je kako sam ranije naveo dio psiholoskog zivota te osobe zajedno sa mnogim drugim elementima. Recimo, postavi se osobi situacija da popije 5 piva kada izadje vani. Vjernik (musliman npr) bi izabrao da ne popije 5 piva zbog svoje vjere i zelje da ne ucini grijeh. Ateist bi u istoj situaciji popiio 5 piva jer njegov sistem vrijednosti NE UKLJUCUJE odbijanje piva zbog vjere.

Dakle, razlika izmedju njih nije u tome sto je jedan kvalitativno ovakav a drugi onakav nego sto se njihovi sistemi vrijednosti (kao identicne pojavne kategorije) razlikuju u sadrzaju. Jednostavnije receno, njihovo ponasanje u slicnoj situaciji je odredjeno razlicitim sadrzajem sistema vrijednosti jer obojica imaju sistem vrijednosti.

Ako bi se obojici postavila sljedeca situacija: da im se pistolj i kaze im se da ubiju nevinog covjeka kako bi obojica reagovali?

Velika je vjerovatnoca da bi obojica s gnusanjem odbili takav cin i izabrali da ne ucine takav akt. Zasto?

Vjernik ce to uciniti (recimo) sto se boji bozije kazne za taj grijeh. Naravno i zato sto mu principi covjecnosti (kao apstraktni element ljudskosti) ne dozvoljavaju takvo sto. A ateista zato sto mu principi "covjecnosti" ne dozvoljavaju nesto tako. Obojica ce odbiti a svako iz svojih razloga. Osnovno pitanje je da li je strah od grijeha i kazne nesto sto dolazi izvana pa samim tim umanjuje savjesnost i dobrotu onoga koji joj se povinuje i da li je "humanost" ista takva kategorija? Ili da su obje kategorije dosle izvana ili su se uvijek nalazile iznutra?

Ako je strah od bozije kazne dosao izvana, a humanost izutra onda bi mogli tvrditi da je dobro djelo ateiste vrijednije od vjernikovog. Ako su oba dosla izvana ili iznutra onda su djela i ateiste i vjernika identicne vrijednosti jer su izazvana istim djelovanjem - samo sa razlicitim sadrzajem.

Naravno, nemam vremena za analizu podrobniju ali ovo je samo za razmisljanje. Takodjer ne ocekujem da ce mnogi ovdje uopce shvatiti sta sam napisao, naravno osim casnih i pametnih ljudi.

Na kraju, neka pise covjek sta hoce, pisu i drugi razne stvari pa im se ne stavljaju na teret "monolozi", "jednosmjerna komunikacija" i slicno. Ja bi to njihovo pametovanje prije nazvao budalastinom i smetljem.

Al svakom svacije.

Neka zivi sloboda za sve!