Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

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Capljina74
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#2951 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

Nisam.
belfy
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#2952 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by belfy »

-Chesterfield- wrote: 18/04/2021 23:28 Ako ima neko fotografije 60 konja u razmaku od milion godina?
ima jedan dobar forum za fotografe osnovan od strane Diplodokusa Fotografusa. on je postavljao takve i mislim da sve originalne mozes naci tamo. cak mislim da mu je specijalizacija bila fotografisanje konja od 1.500.000 BC - 143 BC jer ih je pravo volio. samo ne znam da li ces ih moci postavljati na forum zbog copyright -a...
belfy
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#2953 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by belfy »

steta...
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GAU8
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#2954 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

belfy wrote: 18/04/2021 21:03
GAU8 wrote: 18/04/2021 17:31
belfy wrote: 18/04/2021 16:28 ali, evo da pokusam jos jednom. svojim upisima gdje sam ja pitao nesto Capljinu direktno, iako je sasvim jasno da covjek izbjegava direktne odgovore
Da, kreacionizam izbjegava direktne odgovore i pitanja moraju biti maksimalno fokusirana i ogranicena. Tako je prostor za izbjegavanje manji.

To je prva stvar. Druga stvar, nauka nema ni priblizan odgovor na pitanje kako je NASTAO zivot na zemlji. S druge strane se odavno zna kako su se iz prbog zivota razvijale sve vrste koje su zivjele ili trenutno zive na planeti.

I kada neko pita: "Sta mislis kako je nastao zivot i odakle sve ove vrste" logicno je da ce kreacionisticki odgovor ici u smjeru diskreditacije nauke kako ona ni sama nema objasnjenje za nastanak zivota. Ja samo smatram da to dvoje treba razdvojiti kako bi se smanjio manevarski prostor.
e vidis, ovdje iznad opet pricas kao da ja ne znam sta je hebena abiogeneza. ono sto tebi jos uvijek nije jasno zasto sam ja pitanje onako formulisao si mogao i pitati, pa da ti kao covjeku odgovorim. zato sto je isti stav onih koji ignorisu dokaze o evoluciji, kao i onih koji tvrde da je za postanak zivota potreban krator. nije bitno koje se pitanje postavi, ali je jedno direktnije i teze je mutiti vodu.

ja sam vrlo dobro svjestan odgovora koje mogu dobiti. meni samo, opet, nije jasno kako ti ne vidis da ti ne smanjujes taj manevarski prostor, nego cinis upravo suprotno. evo cak i sa ovim svojim postom.

nisi na forumu od jucer, a konverzacija ti je kao da si se jucer registrovao. pamtim te kao boljeg. ne znam sta se desilo u medjuvremenu. da li je na tom accountu druga osoba sada?
Prava ti tetka. Imas opciju foe i bujrum.
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GAU8
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#2955 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Capljina74 wrote: 18/04/2021 20:53 Guglao, ali izlazi samo spevijavija.

Hibtidnu nisam našao. Zato ti rekoh, ostavi koji link.

Samo mojne dokaz da bude hibrid vuka i psa ili kojota...
Eto recimo Wikipedia se pojavi medju prvim rezultatima sa finim clankom kada se pretrazuje pojam "Hybrid Speciacion"
Capljina74
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#2956 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 08:55
Capljina74 wrote: 18/04/2021 20:53 Guglao, ali izlazi samo spevijavija.

Hibtidnu nisam našao. Zato ti rekoh, ostavi koji link.

Samo mojne dokaz da bude hibrid vuka i psa ili kojota...
Eto recimo Wikipedia se pojavi medju prvim rezultatima sa finim clankom kada se pretrazuje pojam "Hybrid Speciacion"
Дај озбиљних линкова.
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GAU8
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#2957 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 09:11
GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 08:55
Capljina74 wrote: 18/04/2021 20:53 Guglao, ali izlazi samo spevijavija.

Hibtidnu nisam našao. Zato ti rekoh, ostavi koji link.

Samo mojne dokaz da bude hibrid vuka i psa ili kojota...
Eto recimo Wikipedia se pojavi medju prvim rezultatima sa finim clankom kada se pretrazuje pojam "Hybrid Speciacion"
Дај озбиљних линкова.
Sa Wikipedie za svaki citat imas link na "ozbiljan" izvor. Nije ti valjda lijeno da istrazujes.
Capljina74
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#2958 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

Naravno jer nemam vremena.

Na Viki nisu iznijeli potvrdu koji bi zadovoljio ni jedan od ovih zahtjeva:

(1) there must be evidence of hybridization between species, (2) the hybrids must be reproductively isolated from the parental species, and (3) there should be evidence that hybridization is the cause of the isolation (Schumer et al., 2014).

A sve zahtjeva istraživanje.

Već rekoh da je kod životinja hibrid slijepa ulica i to je zacementirano.
Zato trebaju dobri tekstovi da se istraži.
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GAU8
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#2959 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 11:51 Naravno jer nemam vremena.

Na Viki nisu iznijeli potvrdu koji bi zadovoljio ni jedan od ovih zahtjeva:

(1) there must be evidence of hybridization between species, (2) the hybrids must be reproductively isolated from the parental species, and (3) there should be evidence that hybridization is the cause of the isolation (Schumer et al., 2014).

A sve zahtjeva istraživanje.

Već rekoh da je kod životinja hibrid slijepa ulica i to je zacementirano.
Zato trebaju dobri tekstovi da se istraži.
Mislis da bih postavljao Wiki kao primjer sa nisam prvo ja licno procitao da je upravo to zadovoljeno.
Nemoj govoriti nesto sto nije istina.
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GAU8
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#2960 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sc ... ervations/
Critics of evolution often fall back on the maxim that no one has ever seen one species split into two. While that's clearly a straw man, because most speciation takes far longer than our lifespan to occur, it's also not true. We have seen species split, and we continue to see species diverging every day.
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GAU8
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#2961 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

https://www.oxfordbibliographies.com/vi ... 8-0005.xml

Ovo je samo jedan dio.
Pa ako budes zainteresiran, da dodam jos.
Capljina74
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#2962 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

Само шалтај.
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GAU8
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#2963 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Imas li prvo neki komentar na gornje dokumentovane, poznate primjere specijacije, takoreci vidljive u realnom vremenu?

Ako nemas komentar, to znaci da nemas nikakav protuargument, a to znaci argument kreacionizma: "nema novih vrsta" pada u vodu
Capljina74
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#2964 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 12:03 https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sc ... ervations/
Critics of evolution often fall back on the maxim that no one has ever seen one species split into two. While that's clearly a straw man, because most speciation takes far longer than our lifespan to occur, it's also not true. We have seen species split, and we continue to see species diverging every day.
Prvo što upade u oči je da iz šale pišu za otkup da je delfin, ali kontam da bi približili ljudima priču.

Drugo,
Orka je jedna jedina vrsta. Gdje oni nadjoše više orki!?

Orka je Orcinus orca i to je to.

Čitamo se. I ovo je na brzinu, jer sam u kolima.

Biljke stvarno nemam pojma. Daleko je od mog faha, ne bi da ulazim u to. Jednostavno pojma nemam i ne bi ko bombaš Apsi da šibam.
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GAU8
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#2965 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 12:44
GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 12:03 https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/sc ... ervations/
Critics of evolution often fall back on the maxim that no one has ever seen one species split into two. While that's clearly a straw man, because most speciation takes far longer than our lifespan to occur, it's also not true. We have seen species split, and we continue to see species diverging every day.
Prvo što upade u oči je da iz šale pišu za otkup da je delfin, ali kontam da bi približili ljudima priču.

Drugo,
Orka je jedna jedina vrsta. Gdje oni nadjoše više orki!?

Orka je Orcinus orca i to je to.

Čitamo se. I ovo je na brzinu, jer sam u kolima.

Biljke stvarno nemam pojma. Daleko je od mog faha, ne bi da ulazim u to. Jednostavno pojma nemam i ne bi ko bombaš Apsi da šibam.
Nije uopste bitno da li je upitanju biljka ili zivotinja. Cak i samo jedna jedina vrsta da se pojavila nakon "momenta sveukupne kreacije" kompletan koncept kreacionizma pada u vodu.

A kako vidis, hibridna specijacija je prisutna i kod biljaka, i kod zivotinja.
Capljina74
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#2966 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

Dobro.

Samo se treba udubiti u to što pišu. Evo situacije sa psima i Orkom gdje postoji jedna vrsta, a po njima više vrsta.
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GAU8
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#2967 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 13:12 Dobro.

Samo se treba udubiti u to što pišu. Evo situacije sa psima i Orkom gdje postoji jedna vrsta, a po njima više vrsta.
Tekst govori nesto sasvim drugo. Mislim da se ti nisi dovoljno udubio :-D
...These data suggested there are indeed at least three different species of killer whale. Phylogenetic analysis indicated that the different species of orca have been separated for 150,000 to 700,000 years.

Why did the orcas split? The truth is, we don't know. Perhaps it was a side effect of modifications for hunting different prey sources, or perhaps there was some kind of physical barrier between populations that has since disappeared...
I kako objasnjavas ovo?
there were the two new species of American goatsbeards (or salsifies, genus Tragopogon) that sprung into existence in the past century. In the early 1900s, three species of these wildflowers - the western salsify (T. dubius), the meadow salsify (T. pratensis), and the oyster plant (T. porrifolius) - were introduced to the United States from Europe. As their populations expanded, the species interacted, often producing sterile hybrids. But by the 1950s, scientists realized that there were two new variations of goatsbeard growing. While they looked like hybrids, they weren't sterile. They were perfectly capable of reproducing with their own kind but not with any of the original three species - the classic definition of a new species.
I to sve po definiciji vrste koju si i sam naveo.
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apsidejzi
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#2968 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by apsidejzi »

Capljina74 wrote: 18/04/2021 21:59 Kada se nalupaš kao mooodo o samar nije teško biti pametan. Dovoljno znanje srednje škole.

Rekoh već, na tvoju žalost, da nisam kreacionista.
Lik se fakat pravi mutav. Niko te ne pita sta nisi, nego sta jesi.
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GAU8
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#2969 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Evo i mene zanima, koje stajaliste zastupa?

Nije kreacionizam, onda prespostavljam nije ni inteligentni dizajn, jer je to dvoje isto...

Sta ostaje? Vanzemaljci zasijali sjeme zivota na planeti? Veliki prasak?? :D

U principu nema mnogo alternativa, ali je OK i posteno nekada reci i "ne znam"
Capljina74
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#2970 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 13:52
Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 13:12 Dobro.

Samo se treba udubiti u to što pišu. Evo situacije sa psima i Orkom gdje postoji jedna vrsta, a po njima više vrsta.
Tekst govori nesto sasvim drugo. Mislim da se ti nisi dovoljno udubio :-D
...These data suggested there are indeed at least three different species of killer whale. Phylogenetic analysis indicated that the different species of orca have been separated for 150,000 to 700,000 years.

Why did the orcas split? The truth is, we don't know. Perhaps it was a side effect of modifications for hunting different prey sources, or perhaps there was some kind of physical barrier between populations that has since disappeared...
I kako objasnjavas ovo?
there were the two new species of American goatsbeards (or salsifies, genus Tragopogon) that sprung into existence in the past century. In the early 1900s, three species of these wildflowers - the western salsify (T. dubius), the meadow salsify (T. pratensis), and the oyster plant (T. porrifolius) - were introduced to the United States from Europe. As their populations expanded, the species interacted, often producing sterile hybrids. But by the 1950s, scientists realized that there were two new variations of goatsbeard growing. While they looked like hybrids, they weren't sterile. They were perfectly capable of reproducing with their own kind but not with any of the original three species - the classic definition of a new species.
I to sve po definiciji vrste koju si i sam naveo.
Vidio, vidio...

But just because we can't see all speciation events from start to finish doesn't mean we can't see species splitting. If the theory of evolution is true, we would expect to find species in various stages of separation all over the globe.

....

These data suggested there are indeed at least three different species of killer whale.
Last edited by Capljina74 on 19/04/2021 19:12, edited 1 time in total.
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GAU8
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#2971 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 16:27
GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 13:52
Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 13:12 Dobro.

Samo se treba udubiti u to što pišu. Evo situacije sa psima i Orkom gdje postoji jedna vrsta, a po njima više vrsta.
Tekst govori nesto sasvim drugo. Mislim da se ti nisi dovoljno udubio :-D
...These data suggested there are indeed at least three different species of killer whale. Phylogenetic analysis indicated that the different species of orca have been separated for 150,000 to 700,000 years.

Why did the orcas split? The truth is, we don't know. Perhaps it was a side effect of modifications for hunting different prey sources, or perhaps there was some kind of physical barrier between populations that has since disappeared...
I kako objasnjavas ovo?
there were the two new species of American goatsbeards (or salsifies, genus Tragopogon) that sprung into existence in the past century. In the early 1900s, three species of these wildflowers - the western salsify (T. dubius), the meadow salsify (T. pratensis), and the oyster plant (T. porrifolius) - were introduced to the United States from Europe. As their populations expanded, the species interacted, often producing sterile hybrids. But by the 1950s, scientists realized that there were two new variations of goatsbeard growing. While they looked like hybrids, they weren't sterile. They were perfectly capable of reproducing with their own kind but not with any of the original three species - the classic definition of a new species.
I to sve po definiciji vrste koju si i sam naveo.
Vodio, vodio...

But just because we can't see all speciation events from start to finish doesn't mean we can't see species splitting. If the theory of evolution is true, we would expect to find species in various stages of separation all over the globe.

....

These data suggested there are indeed at least three different species of killer whale.
U periodu 2-3 decenije se pojave 3 nove cvijetne vrste.
Kako se to poklapa sa kreacionizmom ili inteligentnim dizajnom?
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apsidejzi
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#2972 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by apsidejzi »

GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 16:35 U periodu 2-3 decenije se pojave 3 nove cvijetne vrste.
Kako se to poklapa sa kreacionizmom ili inteligentnim dizajnom?
Bog ih stvorio. Isto kao i virus korone pa sad ubija ljude gusenjem.
Capljina74
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#2973 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

apsidejzi wrote: 19/04/2021 18:03
GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 16:35 U periodu 2-3 decenije se pojave 3 nove cvijetne vrste.
Kako se to poklapa sa kreacionizmom ili inteligentnim dizajnom?
Bog ih stvorio. Isto kao i virus korone pa sad ubija ljude gusenjem.
Ne ubija gušenjem nego diseminovanom intravaskularnom koagulacijom koja dovodi do infarkta jetre, srčanog mišića..., moždanog udara i niz stvari na plućima.
Capljina74
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#2974 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by Capljina74 »

GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 16:35
Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 16:27
GAU8 wrote: 19/04/2021 13:52
Tekst govori nesto sasvim drugo. Mislim da se ti nisi dovoljno udubio :-D



I kako objasnjavas ovo?


I to sve po definiciji vrste koju si i sam naveo.
Vodio, vodio...

But just because we can't see all speciation events from start to finish doesn't mean we can't see species splitting. If the theory of evolution is true, we would expect to find species in various stages of separation all over the globe.

....

These data suggested there are indeed at least three different species of killer whale.
U periodu 2-3 decenije se pojave 3 nove cvijetne vrste.
Kako se to poklapa sa kreacionizmom ili inteligentnim dizajnom?
Već ti rekoh da biljke nisu nešto u šta sam upućen. Ne mogu da pričam o nečemu samo na osnovu tekstova sa interneta pa da bacam bombe kao Apsi ovdje.

Mada zanimljivo mi ono pozivanje na pse i razlike među njima.

Psi su jedna vrsta. Zajedno sa vukovima čine veliku vrstu Canis lupus.

Čitam ostale tekstove. Ovaj ništa impresivno nema.
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GAU8
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#2975 Re: Inteligentni Dizajn vs. Evolucija

Post by GAU8 »

Capljina74 wrote: 19/04/2021 19:36
Psi su jedna vrsta. Zajedno sa vukovima čine veliku vrstu Canis lupus.

Čitam ostale tekstove. Ovaj ništa impresivno nema.
Bitna je reproduktivna barijera koja se pojavila kod biljaka.
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