Tsipras učinio više u tri dana, nego Bih u dvadeset godina

[vivaldi]

gospon krugman showbiz ekonomista i to vrlo dobar, ala svetlna cenic.

znaju svojoj guzici od naprdjivanja dobro podici cijenu..bas me zanima da li bi dosao u atina besplatno da siri svoje slobodarske ideje. bi al kurcu. tek po uplati na racun.

meanwhile, penzioneri usred grckog ljeta u redovima pred bankama se diraju po bradavicama i slave istorijsku pobjedu (ps. ovaj smajli je broom broom varufakis na motoru

[Challenger__]

Kad smo već kod Varoufakisa... Lik nije "digao sidro", prvi, kao što si predviđao, nego je zamoljen da se makne u stranu, do daljnjeg. To je molba Ciprasa i ustupak Trojci pred pregovore.

Alergični su na njega, ne od jučer.

[L u c i f e r]

[Cybernetic]

.

[JohnnyS]

Varufakis - Che 21. stoljeća, idol internet ljevičara i cyber anarhista.

[Alfons Kauders]

The following declaration is signed by 246 professors at Economics Schools and Universities in Greece. By this declaration, we want to express our great distress about the latest developments in our country. We strongly believe that, at this crucial point, it is of paramount importance to avoid excesses, to show national cohesion, to preserve our position in the Eurozone and the EU, and to regain our credibility in the international community. Further, the fiscal consolidation program, drawn jointly with our EU partners and other creditors like the IMF, should be characterized by the lowest possible recessionary consequences and the highest possible level of social protection, aiming at growth and job creation in the private sector as soon as possible. The prolonged political uncertainty has led the economy to a renewed recession, has reversed the decline in unemployment, has lowered tax revenue and has widened the fiscal gap.

Taking into account that the proposals of our creditors and the Greek government were converging until last Friday, we believe that what is really at stake in the coming Referendum, irrespective of the precise formulation of the question, is whether Greece will remain, or not, in the Eurozone and, possibly, whether it will remain in the EU itself.

The funding of the Greek economy by Eurozone countries was suspended last weekend after the Greek government abandoned the negotiations at a time when no alternative funding opportunities seem to be available. We are already at the first stage of a very slippery process that, if not urgently reversed, will lead to a chaotic debt default and exit from the Eurozone. Bank closures and capital controls (that had been so far avoided throughout the deep crisis) constitute only the first rupture from the Eurozone and the EU itself

We believe that the recessionary consequences of debt default and exit from the Eurozone, especially in such a chaotic and superficial way, will be much worse than the effects of a painful compromise with our EU partners and the IMF. A disorderly break of our country from the core of Europe will have disastrous economic, social, political and geopolitical consequences.

Short-run consequences: Bank closures, cut in the value of deposits, sharp decline in tourism, shortages of basic consumer goods and raw materials, black market, hyperinflation, firm bankruptcies and a big rise in unemployment, rapid fall in real wages and the real value of pensions, deep recession and serious problems in the functioning of public health care and defense, social unrest.

Medium-term consequences: international isolation of the country, no access to international capital markets for several years, low growth and anemic investment, high unemployment combined with high inflation rates, suspension of the flow of EU structural funds, significant decline in the standard of living, poor provision of basic public goods and services.

All these developments should not have happened after 5 years of big sacrifices by the Greek people, and a tremendous fiscal adjustment, right at the time when the economy was starting to recover, with favourable expectations for further easing in the terms of our public debt obligations. They should not have happened in a period when the European economy is returning to positive growth rates and other peripheral euro countries start growing and reducing unemployment. They should not have happened in a favorable time for further EU integration that will benefit the South and when the ECB facilitates growth with excess liquidity and zero interest rates.

Leaving the Eurozone, especially with this chaotic and superficial way, would likely lead to a process of leaving the EU too, with unpredictable and disastrous consequences for the national security and the democratic stability of our country.

For all these reasons, Greece must remain in the core of the EU, which is the Eurozone.

For all these reasons, our unequivocal answer to the real question of the referendum is: YES. Yes, to Europe.

[vivaldi]

ustupak Trojci pred pregovore

to je ustupak vlastitoj naciji. nema ideologije kod ovakvih pitanja. vidi, ja tebe, sebe ili bio koga savrsneo razumijem kao posmtaraca, ali ideologije nema kada vodis drzavu (zapravo i puno manju zajeenicu).

npr dodjes s posla, istusiras se, pojedes komad mesa, upalis malo net, pogledas na forumu koju automobmu u siriji, koje odsjceanje glave, malo glumis cheerlidersicu "go bashar go, go daesh go, go fsa goo..", a onda ti to dosadi pa malo gledas tv, ako ti se posrecis ispraznis mosnice, i onda malo, onda opet bacis malo ideologije po forumu pred spavanje i opet jovo nanovo.

i sve to tako moze dok si sjedis u publici, a ne na velikom ekranu. tada sve ovo pada u vodu.

varufais je bio na velikom ekranu. a sta je radio? lozio narod da sve moze biti kao nekad, a doveo ih situaciju da im je svaki dan gori od prethodnog.

to je zlocin prema vlastitom narodu. srecom vjerovatno jos uvijek imaju priliku da smanje stetu i naprave neki deal, a ne da naciju odvede u neizvjesnot

[PeppermintSA]

Jeboga led, što bi rekli Dalmatinci. Glupi Bošnjo ništa ne konta Evo najplastičnije, da napokon ukapirate:

FAZA 1: 2008. je pukao Wallstreet. Bjelosvjetski hoštapleri su šakom i kapom dijelili hipoteke svakom moguće, a onda su te financijske bombe upakovali kao vrijednosnice s podlogom hipoteka i tušili ih širom svijeta. Rejting agencije pri međunarodnim i državnim financijskim institucijama su davali pozitivne ocjene tim proizvodima mimo svakog rezona. Tim su bankari zaradili na stotine milijardi dolara.

FAZA 2: Kada je pukao Wallstreet, zapravo su pukle te financijske bombe upakovane na način koji sam iznad opisao. Komercijalne i investicione banke širom svijeta počele su se urušavati u svega nekoliko sedmica. Vlade i lokalne zajednice čija je imovina bila na tim bankama počele su gubiti sve. Velike banke kao što su Goldman Sachs od toga su zarađivale nenormalno kroz tri vrste manipulacije: Prva je bila kupovina likvidiranih, manjih banaka. Druga je bila klađenje (!!!) na propast određenih financijskih instuticija i banaka. Tako je recimo član izvršnog odbora Goldman Sachsa, John Paulson zaradio okruglo 11 milijardi dolara na takvo klađenje. To je sukob interesa, nešto nalik onih skandala u Serie A. Treća je taj već sada mitski bailout = Privatna banka propadne, u međuvremenu se njeni bankari obogate, a porezni obveznici upumpanju nevjerovatnu lovu kako bi ona ponovo stala na noge, odnosno postala konkurentna.

FAZA 3: Je kada banke natjeraju vlade da prihvate ogroman dug. Evo metafora iz biologije: zamislite virus ili bakteriju. Sve one imaju jedinstvenu strategiju kako oslabiti imunološki sistem žrtve. Jedan od dokazanih tehnika koje koriste međunarodni bankari jeste unazaditi obveznice zemlje. I to je upravo ono što su bankari uradili, počevši krajem 2009. Odmah su astronomski povećali kamatne stope (tzv. "prinose") na obveznice, što u potpunosti sjebe jednu državu. Naprosto postane nevjerovatno skupo dizati nove kredite, čak i preskupo izboriti se sa već postojećim obveznicama. Od 2009 do 2010 kamatna stopa na grčke obeznice se povećala puta 5(!!!) To je klasično, najklasičnije lihvarstvo. Ovo je dovelo Grčku na koljena, tako da su bankari uspijeli im uvaliti prvi paket u vrijednosti od 110 milijardi eura.

2011. godine grčki premijer odbio je novi bailout, nakon čega je natjeran, mimo bilo kakvih izbora, da podnese ostavku. Na njegovo mjesto doveden je zamjenik predsjednika Evropske centralne banke - naglašavam, mimo bilo kakvih izbora. Isto je urađeno i u Italiji i Španiji. Godinu dana poslije kamatna stopa na grčke obveznice povećana je na 50%(!!!). Ovim je grčka vlada natjerana na prihvatanje drugog paketa, odnosno bailouta.

FAZA 4: E sad, prosjećni čovjek na kapira (a pogotovo glupi Bošnjo) - ne postoji paralela između ovakvih kredita i kredita koje neki građanin podigne. Nije to - ja dig'o kredit za auto i onda ga moram vratiti. Krediti koji su Grčkoj uvaljani nose niz dodatnih caka. Naime, prihvatanjem tog paketa (natjerani su), Grčka je morala privatizovati apsolutno sve što joj je donosilo novac - vodu, struju, plin, pošte, aerodrome, nacionalne banke, telekomunikacije, veliki procenat univerziteta, luke itd. Dakle, dat im je kredit, a uzet im je svaki veći izvor vraćanja tog kredita. Uslijedio je zahtjev za privatizaciju svih medija što je sprovedeno kako bi se mogla vrtiti propaganda o tome kako je trojka nešto najbolje što se moglo desiti grčkom narodu.

Spominjete vojsku - sporazumom iz 2012. godine, trojka odlućuje o SVIM rezovima u grčkoj javnoj potrošnji. Čak u ŠEST navrata je ministarstvo financija pokušalo smanjiti vojnu potrošnju ali je to odbijeno zbog ''obaveza prema NATO paktu''. Četiri puta se pokušao povećati porez na luksuz - ni to nije prošlo. E sad, šta se desi? Ti međunarodni bankari i sama trojka pokušavaju defecit poravnati na nivo suficita rezovima u javnom sektoru. Dakle, vojska troši astronomski, bogataški nisu oporezivani, ali zato neki jadnik na minimalcu gubi 101 beneficiju. To je 1/1 ono što su radili isti ti ljudi u Latinskoj Americi i Africi.

[JohnnyS]

The following declaration is signed by 246 professors at Economics Schools and Universities in Greece. By this declaration, we want to express our great distress about the latest developments in our country. We strongly believe that, at this crucial point, it is of paramount importance to avoid excesses, to show national cohesion, to preserve our position in the Eurozone and the EU, and to regain our credibility in the international community. Further, the fiscal consolidation program, drawn jointly with our EU partners and other creditors like the IMF, should be characterized by the lowest possible recessionary consequences and the highest possible level of social protection, aiming at growth and job creation in the private sector as soon as possible. The prolonged political uncertainty has led the economy to a renewed recession, has reversed the decline in unemployment, has lowered tax revenue and has widened the fiscal gap.

Taking into account that the proposals of our creditors and the Greek government were converging until last Friday, we believe that what is really at stake in the coming Referendum, irrespective of the precise formulation of the question, is whether Greece will remain, or not, in the Eurozone and, possibly, whether it will remain in the EU itself.

The funding of the Greek economy by Eurozone countries was suspended last weekend after the Greek government abandoned the negotiations at a time when no alternative funding opportunities seem to be available. We are already at the first stage of a very slippery process that, if not urgently reversed, will lead to a chaotic debt default and exit from the Eurozone. Bank closures and capital controls (that had been so far avoided throughout the deep crisis) constitute only the first rupture from the Eurozone and the EU itself

We believe that the recessionary consequences of debt default and exit from the Eurozone, especially in such a chaotic and superficial way, will be much worse than the effects of a painful compromise with our EU partners and the IMF. A disorderly break of our country from the core of Europe will have disastrous economic, social, political and geopolitical consequences.

Short-run consequences: Bank closures, cut in the value of deposits, sharp decline in tourism, shortages of basic consumer goods and raw materials, black market, hyperinflation, firm bankruptcies and a big rise in unemployment, rapid fall in real wages and the real value of pensions, deep recession and serious problems in the functioning of public health care and defense, social unrest.

Medium-term consequences: international isolation of the country, no access to international capital markets for several years, low growth and anemic investment, high unemployment combined with high inflation rates, suspension of the flow of EU structural funds, significant decline in the standard of living, poor provision of basic public goods and services.

All these developments should not have happened after 5 years of big sacrifices by the Greek people, and a tremendous fiscal adjustment, right at the time when the economy was starting to recover, with favourable expectations for further easing in the terms of our public debt obligations. They should not have happened in a period when the European economy is returning to positive growth rates and other peripheral euro countries start growing and reducing unemployment. They should not have happened in a favorable time for further EU integration that will benefit the South and when the ECB facilitates growth with excess liquidity and zero interest rates.

Leaving the Eurozone, especially with this chaotic and superficial way, would likely lead to a process of leaving the EU too, with unpredictable and disastrous consequences for the national security and the democratic stability of our country.

For all these reasons, Greece must remain in the core of the EU, which is the Eurozone.

For all these reasons, our unequivocal answer to the real question of the referendum is: YES. Yes, to Europe.

Plaćenici lihvaro-cionistički, osobe bez kičme, robovi, protivnici demokracije #JošJednaGrčkaRiječ

[vivaldi]

Trebao je jahati na magarcu da mu ne bi sto zamjerili.

e tako ti sutra fino svom gazdi u firmu i ultimativno trazi duplo vecu platu. koga jebe. kada ti poakze na "exit"ti mangupski izadji i zalupi vratima.

dodju na forum i pofali se raji - od mene ti je odmah gratis 16 smajlija po tvom izboru,


ps. ali me ne zovi kad dodju rezijski racuni

[Challenger__]

to je ustupak vlastitoj naciji. nema ideologije kod ovakvih pitanja. vidi, ja tebe, sebe ili bio koga savrsneo razumijem kao posmtaraca, ali ideologije nema kada vodis drzavu (zapravo i puno manju zajeenicu).

npr dodjes s posla, istusiras se, pojedes komad mesa, upalis malo net, pogledas na forumu koju automobmu u siriji, koje odsjceanje glave, malo glumis cheerlidersicu "go bashar go, go daesh go, go fsa goo..", a onda ti to dosadi pa malo gledas tv, ako ti se posrecis ispraznis mosnice, i onda malo, onda opet bacis malo ideologije po forumu pred spavanje i opet jovo nanovo.

i sve to tako moze dok si sjedis u publici, a ne na velikom ekranu. tada sve ovo pada u vodu.

varufais je bio na velikom ekranu. a sta je radio? lozio narod da sve moze biti kao nekad, a doveo ih situaciju da im je svaki dan gori od prethodnog.

to je zlocin prema vlastitom narodu. srecom vjerovatno jos uvijek imaju priliku da smanje stetu i naprave neki deal, a ne da naciju odvede u neizvjesnot

To je elaboracija ostavke, tvoja. Tačna, netačna, nebitno. Biitno je da "nije digao sidro", kao što si predviđao, nego je ostavka tražena od njega.

[Alfons Kauders]

The following declaration is signed by 246 professors at Economics Schools and Universities in Greece. By this declaration, we want to express our great distress about the latest developments in our country. We strongly believe that, at this crucial point, it is of paramount importance to avoid excesses, to show national cohesion, to preserve our position in the Eurozone and the EU, and to regain our credibility in the international community. Further, the fiscal consolidation program, drawn jointly with our EU partners and other creditors like the IMF, should be characterized by the lowest possible recessionary consequences and the highest possible level of social protection, aiming at growth and job creation in the private sector as soon as possible. The prolonged political uncertainty has led the economy to a renewed recession, has reversed the decline in unemployment, has lowered tax revenue and has widened the fiscal gap.

Taking into account that the proposals of our creditors and the Greek government were converging until last Friday, we believe that what is really at stake in the coming Referendum, irrespective of the precise formulation of the question, is whether Greece will remain, or not, in the Eurozone and, possibly, whether it will remain in the EU itself.

The funding of the Greek economy by Eurozone countries was suspended last weekend after the Greek government abandoned the negotiations at a time when no alternative funding opportunities seem to be available. We are already at the first stage of a very slippery process that, if not urgently reversed, will lead to a chaotic debt default and exit from the Eurozone. Bank closures and capital controls (that had been so far avoided throughout the deep crisis) constitute only the first rupture from the Eurozone and the EU itself

We believe that the recessionary consequences of debt default and exit from the Eurozone, especially in such a chaotic and superficial way, will be much worse than the effects of a painful compromise with our EU partners and the IMF. A disorderly break of our country from the core of Europe will have disastrous economic, social, political and geopolitical consequences.

Short-run consequences: Bank closures, cut in the value of deposits, sharp decline in tourism, shortages of basic consumer goods and raw materials, black market, hyperinflation, firm bankruptcies and a big rise in unemployment, rapid fall in real wages and the real value of pensions, deep recession and serious problems in the functioning of public health care and defense, social unrest.

Medium-term consequences: international isolation of the country, no access to international capital markets for several years, low growth and anemic investment, high unemployment combined with high inflation rates, suspension of the flow of EU structural funds, significant decline in the standard of living, poor provision of basic public goods and services.

All these developments should not have happened after 5 years of big sacrifices by the Greek people, and a tremendous fiscal adjustment, right at the time when the economy was starting to recover, with favourable expectations for further easing in the terms of our public debt obligations. They should not have happened in a period when the European economy is returning to positive growth rates and other peripheral euro countries start growing and reducing unemployment. They should not have happened in a favorable time for further EU integration that will benefit the South and when the ECB facilitates growth with excess liquidity and zero interest rates.

Leaving the Eurozone, especially with this chaotic and superficial way, would likely lead to a process of leaving the EU too, with unpredictable and disastrous consequences for the national security and the democratic stability of our country.

For all these reasons, Greece must remain in the core of the EU, which is the Eurozone.

For all these reasons, our unequivocal answer to the real question of the referendum is: YES. Yes, to Europe.

Plaćenici lihvaro-cionistički, osobe bez kičme, robovi, protivnici demokracije #JošJednaGrčkaRiječ

I sigurno mrze Grke, kao mi.

[Cybernetic]

.

[Challenger__]

I sigurno mrze Grke, kao mi.

Alfose. Ovo nije bio referendum o napuštanju Eurozone tako da ti je prilog sasvim deplasiran.

[Alfons Kauders]

I sigurno mrze Grke, kao mi.

Alfose. Ovo nije bio referendum o napuštanju Eurozone tako da ti je prilog sasvim deplasiran.

O cemu je onda bio? Da ostanu, ali da se nista ne mijenja i da se krse pravila?

I kakvu bi to poruku poslalo drugim clanicama?

[jastuk1]

varufais je bio na velikom ekranu. a sta je radio? lozio narod da sve moze biti kao nekad, a doveo ih situaciju da im je svaki dan gori od prethodnog.

to je zlocin prema vlastitom narodu. srecom vjerovatno jos uvijek imaju priliku da smanje stetu i naprave neki deal, a ne da naciju odvede u neizvjesnot

I EVO PRVIH MJERA LIHVARO-CIONISTA (NEK SE ZNA DA JE OVO MOJA KOVANICA)

Znači upravo su postavili dinamit ispod ključnih mostova, povećavši vrijednost obaveznog kolatarala na iznad 50 posto, vrijednost iznad koje obični depoziti više nisu sigurni. Ovo je tek prva packa da se vidi neustrašivost Grka.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-0 ... y-analysis

[Challenger__]

O cemu je onda bio? Da ostanu, ali da se nista ne mijenja i da se krse pravila?

I kakvu bi to poruku poslalo drugim clanicama?

Kakva "pravila" i pi*ka materina... Pravila kreiraju subjekti, nisu pravila ajeti Kur'ana. Zna se o čemu je bio referendum a on nije bio o ostanku ili izlasku iz Eurozone.

[Arteta]

Oni hoce penziju od 800 eura, ali nikako da neko u toj grckoj kaze kako? kako osim novog zaduzivanja? Neka fino koriguju penzije prema onome sto MOGU isplatiti, i neka polako pocnu raditi. Kada penzioner u BiH moze da prezivi sa 350KM, vala moze i Grk, jos zima blaza. Ali fakat se ne zajebajem sa ovim. Zbog cega je grcki penzioner bolji od Bosanskog?

Tu se slažemo, zašto bi holandski ili njemački penzioner imali penziju od 1500€? Hajde da svi imaju isto .

Zato sto Holandija i Njemacka nesto proizvode.

[vivaldi]

Necu ja nego citav sindikat.

fino, sve ce vas poslati na biro. ne znam odakle se javljas, al za tvoju informaciju u bih trenutno ima bar 100 firmi koje kolektivno strajkuju vec godinama. jedina promjena od prosle godine je sto im se umjesto 36 plata ove godine duguje 48.

ne funkcioniu stvari tako. ne mozes traziti vise od toga sto ti objektivne okolnosti dozvoljavaju, a u slucaju grcke okolnosti im cak idu na ruku jer sticajem okolnosti nalaze se u situaciji da je i mocnim zemljama iz raznoraznih razloga stalo da im pomognu i zadrze ih i pomognu im cak i na svoju stetu. ali postoji linija do koje su vlastite stete spremni ici. posao grckih lidera da joj se ko skakac u dalje liniji prestupa sto vise priblize (srede najbolje uslove) i naprave deal.

ovi to nisu radili jer sada trpe ogromnu stetu na dnevnoj bazi posto sranje predugo traje. cak i 10-20% u parama bez obzira na ogrome cifre, losiji dealk prije 2-3 mjeseca bi bio manje zlo od ove agonije i stete koju sada trpe bez da uopste znaju na sta ce to izaci i kada

[Bodkin]

O cemu je onda bio? Da ostanu, ali da se nista ne mijenja i da se krse pravila?

I kakvu bi to poruku poslalo drugim clanicama?

Kakva "pravila" i pi*ka materina... Pravila kreiraju subjekti, nisu pravila ajeti Kur'ana. Zna se o čemu je bio referendum a on nije bio o ostanku ili izlasku iz Eurozone.

Tako je. Radis mjesec dana i sef se obavezao da te plati. Prodje mjesec i on kaze nema para jer je pravilo kurac. Nisu glasali svi partneri u firmi. A i ne vrijedis toliko

[Challenger__]

Ljudi pregovaraju tražeći bolji model otplate a ovdje se papagajski ponavlja kako neko "neće da vraća dug".

[smjesko071]

Ljudi pregovaraju tražeći bolji model otplate a ovdje se papagajski ponavlja kako neko "neće da vraća dug".

samo hoce otpis dugova

[belfy]

Ljudi pregovaraju tražeći bolji model otplate a ovdje se papagajski ponavlja kako neko "neće da vraća dug".

daj ba idi na budizam. tamo barem nisi pisao ovakve gluposti. ili barem prelistaj sta si gdje pisao i sta si "pogodio". ovdje prigovaras Covjeku koji je pretpostavio sta ce biti dosta vise puta od tebe. koji je tvoj cilj uopste? da se sto vise ponizis?

jos jednom te molim da prelistas svoje upise i vidis sta si trabunjao. to sto ti mislis da si strucnjak...barem da malo opadne. mozda se barem budes rjedje javljao. hvala unaprijed.

[Challenger__]

Kakav budizam? O čemu/kome ti pišeš? Pišem što mislim i šta me briga šta ti misliš o tome.

[vade_mecum]

moze li ko napraviti kratku rekapitualciju zadnjih 20 stranica? what did i miss?