jOFLA wrote:UnscarD wrote:Koncept resursno bazirane ekonomije koju Zeitgeist popularise a na osnovu Venus Projekt ideja, je temeljna stvar oko koje se pokret vrti. Mora da sam taj dan kada se na marksizmu ucilo o ovoj vrsti ekonomije pobjegao sa casa.
Nisi pobjegao sa časa kad se to učilo jer:
ili
- suviše si mlad pa kad si došao do srednje tog predmeta više nije bilo,
ili
- nisi odrastao s nama, već sa roditeljima gastarbajterima negdje u inostrantvu gdje nije bilo tog predmeta. Da si odrastao s nama, mogao si o takvoj ekonomiji slušati ne samo na časovima marksisma kroz najmanje četri godine, i veličanju takve ekonomije kao jednog od osnovnih elemenata socijalističkog društva, već bi i iz života odlično znao čak i da nisi išao u školu da je kod nas u državi u praksi bila upravo resursna odnosno planska ekonomija, i to uspješna.
Druga bitna stvar koju Zeitgeist promovise je upravo taj da ne postoji neka sacica ljudi koji sjede na nekim sastancima i dogovaraju apsolutno sve dogadjaje na svijetu u pravcu neke skrivene samo njima poznate agende, nego upravo tvrdi da se stvari odvijaju na ovaj nacin zbog sistema (politickog, ekonomskog) koji je takav kakav je i da se svi sudionic ustvari ponasaju potpuno prirodno u okvirima postavljenog sistema i Zeitgesit u tom smislu poziva na promjenu paradigme.
De nadospi još tople vode. Očigledno si oduševljen tračkovima svojih novih spoznaja koje si dobio od filma da ti se čini kako si jedini ti koji si o tome nešto saznao, kao kad samouvjereni i oduševljeni sedamnaestogodišnjak nakon svog prvog spolnog iskustva i romantične večeri svom ocu kaže "stari moj šta sam sve noćas radio, ti pojma o tim stvarima nemaš."
Dakle ti tvrdis da su RBE i Marxov koncept planske ekonomije jedno te isto? Nisu naravno ali ako mislis da jesu jasno mi je zasto mislis da je to otkrivanje tople vode. To ipak meni samo govori da ne znas dovoljno o Frescovim idejama i teorijama koje, slazem se i to je tacno, imaju odredjenih slicnosti sa Marxovim ucenjima ali to ne znaci da su iste a jos manje da su se ucile na casovima marksizma u srednjoj skoli. Cak i da jesu, ovo nije forum koji je exkluzivno 40+ (38+ tacnije). One su potpuno jedinstvene i orginalne a RBE koncept je cak i copyright-ovan kao intelektualno vlasnistvo Fresca, sto mu je u USA koja je po tom pitanju rigorozna, naravno odobreno.
Na licna pitanja o meni ne odgovoram iz vise razloga od kojih je prvi i osnovni da se spustanjem rasprave na licni nivo najcesce gubi smisao diskusije pa pokusaj da se od toga uzdrzis.
On topic :
Vec smo jednom ako me sjecanje dobro sluzi rapravljali o razlikama izmedju Marxovih ideja i RBE koncepta pa ne znam zasto se ponavljamo a posto trenutno nemam vremena da kucam posluzit ce i ovaj copy paste :
Karl Marx defines 10 key elements which define Communism. Those points are:
1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance.
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
8. Equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries;
10. Gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
Here's a comparison with the Resource Based Economy:
1. The Venus Project agrees that land ownership needs to be abolished, but we do not accept charging rent or demanding anything in return for being allowed to shelter one's self.
2. The Venus Project does not advocate taxes of any kind. We do not even advocate a monetary system, so taxation would be irrelevant.
3. The Venus Project has no stance on inheritance, unless the property in question is land. Personal possessions are the property of the holder and will not be seized, which means…
4. Point #4 in Communism is also out of the question. The term "emigrants" will not be defined in the RBE as all national borders will be open to all persons of all nations. We recognize only a global citizenship. There will be no authoritarian policing or enforcement and, therefore, no rebels.
5. There would be no state, no monopolies, no money, no capital, no credit, and no banks. This factor makes the Resource Based Economy incredibly unique.
6. Communication and transport systems would be open for anyone to use with no regulation whatsoever.
7. Factories would be owned by no one, produce via automation, and overseen by anyone who wants that responsibility. We advocate alternative agricultures (such as hydroponics and vertical farming), rather than soil conservation and improvement planning.
8. There will be no liability as far as labor goes. No person will be required to work if they choose not to do so. Automation can produce more than enough at a faster rate of speed without the need for people to labor as well. Automation can do this safer and more consistantly. We do, however, expect people to desire to work in industries that meet their personal dedications simply for self-satisfaction and self-motivating incentives.
9. Agriculture and industry would both be as automated as possible to reduce the need for human intervention. Population would be distributed naturally. We expect an increasing number of individuals choosing simply to live abroad.
10. We support free education in community-provided education centers for all people, children and up. We support private educational options available in any home. There will be no child labor. Education will involve hands-on learning in klix industrial environments in order to encourage critical thinking and interest in developing said industries among the children.
11. A final major factor that distinguishes the RBE from any other economic model is this. Society would be managed based on the scarcity indexes of the resources needed to maintain society, rather than a budget used to regulate the people's access to the resources. In other words, if a resource is needed, but becoming hopelessly scarce, suitable alternatives would be researched and implemented. Every effort would be maintained to eliminate resource scarcity, a concept no other economic model even attempts to address.
. Dakle sada sam ti objasnio da je RBE kocept orginalan i da ga nisi mogao uciti u skoli. OK. Na sta sada prebacujes fokus ? Na to kako ne znam teoriju primjeniti na nas (da i moj, na tvoje veliko iznenadjenje nemam veze sa dijasporom) bivsi sistem u kojem sam kao i ti zivio? Auuuu, o cemu li ti procas? Nisam bas toliko ambiciozan niti sam to pominjao bilo gdje.