Dođe mi da počomskim!

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PipiDugaDevetka
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#1 Dođe mi da počomskim!

Post by PipiDugaDevetka »

ImageImage
BOSTON – Podržao sam one koji su tvrdili da su priča o Srebrenici i službeni broj žrtava preuveličani i žao mi je što to nisam učinio još odlučnije, rekao je američki mislilac Noam Chomsky za britanski list The Guardian.
Chomsky je nedavno proglašen najvećim intelektualcem na svijetu u časopisu Prospect magazine, pa ga je novinarka britanskog lista tim povodom intervjuirala. Riječ je o čovjeku koji je donio kontroverzne zaključke: da je gotovo svaki američki predsjednik nakon Drugog svjetskog rata kriv za ratne zločine; da se u povijesti Kambodže Crveni Kmeri nisu pokazali tako lošima kako ih svi predstavljaju; da je tijekom rata u Bosni masakr u Srebrenici najvjerojatnije preuveličan.
List Living Marxism magazine i novinarka švedskog časopisa Ordfront Diane Johnstone iznijeli su naime svojevremeno sumnje u težinu masakra i službeni broj žrtava Srebrenice. Chomsky je tom prilikom pohvalio novinarku Diane Johnstone, nazvavši njen rad »izuzetnim«. Sada je na pitanje je li mu žao što je podržao njenu hipotezu, odgovorio niječno. – Njen rad je zaista izuzetan. Žao mi je samo što je nisam još snažnije podržao. Možda je i pogriješila u prosudbi, ali je zaista iznijela izuzetne teorije. Nije uopće važno jesu li taj časopis ili Diane Johnstone bili u pravu. To je pitanje slobode govora i misli, rekao je Chomsky.
Na novinarsku napomenu da je Karadžićeva pomoćnica Biljana Plavšić priznala krivnju za zločine protiv čovječnosti, Chomsky odgovara: Naravno, ona se proglasila krivom. No kanadski general Lewis MacKenzie, koji je tamo bio na zadatku, napisao je da je većina priča o Srebrenici potpuna izmišljotina. (The Guardian)
Da imam novca platio bih oglas na CNN-u da objave istinu uključujući presude ICTY Krstiću i ostalim.

*NB: Dođe mi da poludim-Duško Radović
Last edited by PipiDugaDevetka on 02/11/2005 07:26, edited 2 times in total.
da pamtis
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#2

Post by da pamtis »

Podržao sam one koji su tvrdili da su priča o Srebrenici i službeni broj žrtava preuveličani
Chomsky,a zasto ne podrza one koji su tvrdili da je sluzbeni broj zrtava Ausvica preuvelican????
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#3

Post by PipiDugaDevetka »

Izgleda da su neki američki mislioci vrlo kvarljiva roba. Pred desetogodišnjicu Dejtona i skorog donošenja odluke Međunarodnog suda pravde u slučaju RBiH vs SRJ,...pred donošenje odluka o Kosovu,... naročito.
Last edited by PipiDugaDevetka on 02/11/2005 07:11, edited 2 times in total.
Sarafcina
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#4

Post by Sarafcina »

:( noam posto paranoik :( i gleda dobre ideje (teorije) :(
umjesto da razlucuje sta se zaista desilo :(
steta :(
znao je nekad pravo pametnu prozboriti ;)
da pamtis
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#5

Post by da pamtis »

........zanimljivo, :x
Po cemu je zakljucio da je broj preuvelican??Inace Boston je zanimljiv grad, jos od IIWW................
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#6 Re: Dođe mi da počomskim!

Post by Bosanac sa dna kace »

PipiDugaDevetka wrote:Da imam novca platio bih oglas na CNN-u da objave istinu uključujući presude ICTY Krstiću i ostalim.
E vidis za takave stvari para ima cetncika dijaspora predvojdena ''vojvodama'' iz domovine! :x :x :x
A nase balije od nasih poreza i para koje su nam namijenjene grade vile po Istanbulu, Rodosu, Anatliji... :x :x :x
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#7

Post by Sarafcina »

da pamtis wrote:........zanimljivo, :x
Po cemu je zakljucio da je broj preuvelican??Inace Boston je zanimljiv grad, jos od IIWW................
po vlastitim teorijama ;)
one kazu da su mediji tu da zadrzavaju postojece stanje :D
a srebrenicke zrtve on gleda kao brojeve koji sluze toj svrsi ;)

zajebajem se .... :) nagadjam ;)
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#8

Post by PipiDugaDevetka »

Postoji li program obilježavanja desetogodišnjice nesretnog Dejtona? Hoće li biti gostiju kao što je Klinton Bil?
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#9

Post by repeater »

odlomak iz intervjua
"Look," says Chomsky, "there was a hysterical fanaticism about Bosnia in western culture which was very much like a passionate religious conviction. It was like old-fashioned Stalinism: if you depart a couple of millimetres from the party line, you're a traitor, you're destroyed. It's totally irrational. And Diane Johnstone, whether you like it or not, has done serious, honest work. And in the case of Living Marxism, for a big corporation to put a small newspaper out of business because they think something they reported was false, is outrageous."
tipican marksist, tumaci sve kao ideolosku borbu ..
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#10

Post by Prenj »

repeater wrote:odlomak iz intervjua
"Look," says Chomsky, "there was a hysterical fanaticism about Bosnia in western culture which was very much like a passionate religious conviction. It was like old-fashioned Stalinism: if you depart a couple of millimetres from the party line, you're a traitor, you're destroyed. It's totally irrational. And Diane Johnstone, whether you like it or not, has done serious, honest work. And in the case of Living Marxism, for a big corporation to put a small newspaper out of business because they think something they reported was false, is outrageous."
tipican marksist, tumaci sve kao ideolosku borbu ..
On je samo "kontra" i nista vise.
Bijedno.
Nesferatu
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#11

Post by Nesferatu »

A novina i jada i cemera. Living Marxism. Pise o Srebrenici. Reporter koji je proveo u BiH koliko sati svoga zivota?

Nego, sta kaze Dnevni Avaz o zlocinima u Mauretaniji i Mozambiku?

Zna li i o tome nesto Chomsky?
stella_sa
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#12

Post by stella_sa »

Mozda je covjek bio izlozen kakvom stetnom zracenju a nije ni svjestan toga.
:?
Bome jedna knjizara u gradu vise nece prodavati njegove knjige. :angry:
Svemirski_Jebach
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#13

Post by Svemirski_Jebach »

PipiDugaDevetka wrote:Izgleda da su neki američki mislioci vrlo kvarljiva roba. Pred desetogodišnjicu Dejtona i skorog donošenja odluke Međunarodnog suda pravde u slučaju RBiH vs SRJ,...pred donošenje odluka o Kosovu,... naročito.
miljenko je dao dobru ocjenu, on je gotivio milosevica jer je kao anti imperijalista...a pri tome se zaboravljalo na "sporedne" zrtve "anti imperijalizma"

ruzno vrlo ruzno, jer ako se i moze pristati na tezu da se ne posvecuje dovoljno paznje patnji ljudi u El Salvadoru, to ne znaci da se smije negirati nesto drugo sto je takodjer nemjerljiva ljudska patnja...

Noame, sjedi 1.
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#14

Post by Svemirski_Jebach »

repeater wrote:odlomak iz intervjua
"Look," says Chomsky, "there was a hysterical fanaticism about Bosnia in western culture which was very much like a passionate religious conviction. It was like old-fashioned Stalinism: if you depart a couple of millimetres from the party line, you're a traitor, you're destroyed. It's totally irrational. And Diane Johnstone, whether you like it or not, has done serious, honest work. And in the case of Living Marxism, for a big corporation to put a small newspaper out of business because they think something they reported was false, is outrageous."
tipican marksist, tumaci sve kao ideolosku borbu ..
uvijek sam tvrdio da je komunizam i marksizam opasna roba...i da je treba zatrijeti sa lica zemlje :shock:
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#15

Post by Prenj »

Svemirski_Jebach wrote:
repeater wrote:odlomak iz intervjua
"Look," says Chomsky, "there was a hysterical fanaticism about Bosnia in western culture which was very much like a passionate religious conviction. It was like old-fashioned Stalinism: if you depart a couple of millimetres from the party line, you're a traitor, you're destroyed. It's totally irrational. And Diane Johnstone, whether you like it or not, has done serious, honest work. And in the case of Living Marxism, for a big corporation to put a small newspaper out of business because they think something they reported was false, is outrageous."
tipican marksist, tumaci sve kao ideolosku borbu ..
uvijek sam tvrdio da je komunizam i marksizam opasna roba...i da je treba zatrijeti sa lica zemlje :shock:
Izgleda da se Noel malo ogradio od intervjua:
The Guardian wrote: http://www.guardian.co.uk/letters/story ... 21,00.html

Wednesday November 2, 2005
The Guardian

Emma Brockes's report of her interview with me (G2, October 31), opens with the following headline:

"Q: Do you regret supporting those who say the Srebrenica massacre was exaggerated? A: My only regret is that I didn't do it strongly enough"

I did express my regret: namely, that I did not support Diana Johnstone's right to publish strongly enough when her book was withdrawn by the publisher after dishonest press attacks, which I reviewed in an open letter that any reporter could have easily discovered. The remainder of Brockes's report continues in the same vein. Even when the words attributed to me have some resemblance to accuracy, I take no responsibility for them, because of the invented contexts in which they appear.

Article continues
As for her personal opinions, interpretations and distortions, she is of course free to publish them, and I would, of course, support her right to do so, on grounds that she makes quite clear she does not understand.
Noam Chomsky
Lexington, Mass, USA
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#16

Post by Svemirski_Jebach »

haman da mu je doslo iz guzice u glavu sta je rekao pa mu se da je izvaditi :roll:
Stari
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#17

Post by Stari »

Uvijek sam kuburio s tim marxizmom u ono doba dok sam isao u skolu... najcesce sam uspio jedva skrpiti za neku tuborkuloznu dvicu, te se stoga jako slabo sjecam o cemu se tu uopste radilo. Ispravite me ako grijesim ali mensecini da su ona dvojca svaba ...prvo kao napravili nekakvu podjelu naroda po osnovi njihovog odnosa na ...rad ...(vjerovatno)nedozvoljeno pojednostavljeno , izgledalo je to otprilike ovako. Sav ovaj nas svijet se moze podjeliti na one koji imaju i one koji nemaju ...pristup vlasnistvu nad sredstvima rada i proizvodnje.

Nisu njih dvojca jedini koji su kategorizirali svijet u klase ...radili su to i drugi manje ili vise poznati filozofi, socijolozi, psiholozi...i ini. Razlika je (valjda) bila u tome sto su ti drugi vrsili te klasifikacije po nekim drugim osnovama.

Ovaj gore Chumsky ...je vjerovatno dobar u tome sto radi, filozof,mislilac , novinar ...sevac i sta li je vec. Medjutim u ovom textu prica o svemu samo ne o onome ...sto ja (mozda pogresno ...al tu ste vi da me, u tom slucaju, ispravite) drzim jeste marxizam. Buduci da je vecina forumasa ovdje, pored svih drugih kontra-argumenata koji su se savrseno mogli upotrijebiti, odabrala za krunski bas taj da je to sto Chumsky prdunja ..marxizam.


Hm... fulam li nesto...ili krivotvorenje statistickih podataka u vezi srpske agresije na zasticenu zonu Srebrenica stvarno ima najace teorijsko uporiste u njemackim socijolosko-filozofkim studijama?
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#18

Post by digger »

Dole je moja direktna poruka Diani. Ne bi bilo zgorega da svi koji imate problem sa njom ili Chomskim posaljete svoje misljenje imenovanima.
______

Subject: Srebrenica Revisited
Date: October 16, 2005 10:11:21 PM EDT
To: [email protected]

Dear Ms Johnstone:

I've read the above article in Counterpunch.org dated October 12.

I was not in Bosnia during the war and neither were you in Srebrenica 1995. At the same time, I am not a moslem but a Serbian.

Your article leaves many things that may be reconsidered as the complete truth about Srebrenica will never be known.

However, I have a serious disagreement with your writing covering missing 8000 adult males in Srebrenica. You believe the number of missing is closer to 3000. You are even trying to link some references to wrong estimates of dead in New York after the 9/11.

Well, we all know that Srebrenica is not New York. It is a small town where a difference of 5000 missing people would be easy to notice and confirm. The Dutch peacekeeping contingent was there at the time and no one of them ever mentioned that only about 3000 local males met Mladic's forces. If you are standing at 3000 dead and 5000 "went somewhere," how come that they did not return home by now, wrote to their families back in Srebrenica, or tried to contact the families by any other way? Have you ever tried to follow their disappearance and where are they today--even for just one of them?

At the same time, you probably wouldn't believe in "collective amnesia" of 5000 people, wouldn't you?

At best, this part of writing is something I would call a "science of guessology," and at worst, an elaborate effort to "buy" an explanation from those who don't want the world to know the facts.

Sincerely,
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#19

Post by savjest »

Tip je zaluden "crvenom partijom" i izgubio je svaki dodir sa realnoscu. Tome dodati i njegov "urodeni antiamericki" stav dobijemo to sto dobijemo... jedno govno.



Ali takvih "intelektualaca" i "specijalista" za razno razne stvari ima na pretek. Ustvari to su prodavaci magle koji ubiru dobru lovu prodavajuci istu ideoloski zasljepljenim ublehama.
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#20

Post by Svemirski_Jebach »

Stari wrote:Uvijek sam kuburio s tim marxizmom u ono doba dok sam isao u skolu... najcesce sam uspio jedva skrpiti za neku tuborkuloznu dvicu, te se stoga jako slabo sjecam o cemu se tu uopste radilo. Ispravite me ako grijesim ali mensecini da su ona dvojca svaba ...prvo kao napravili nekakvu podjelu naroda po osnovi njihovog odnosa na ...rad ...(vjerovatno)nedozvoljeno pojednostavljeno , izgledalo je to otprilike ovako. Sav ovaj nas svijet se moze podjeliti na one koji imaju i one koji nemaju ...pristup vlasnistvu nad sredstvima rada i proizvodnje.

Nisu njih dvojca jedini koji su kategorizirali svijet u klase ...radili su to i drugi manje ili vise poznati filozofi, socijolozi, psiholozi...i ini. Razlika je (valjda) bila u tome sto su ti drugi vrsili te klasifikacije po nekim drugim osnovama.

Ovaj gore Chumsky ...je vjerovatno dobar u tome sto radi, filozof,mislilac , novinar ...sevac i sta li je vec. Medjutim u ovom textu prica o svemu samo ne o onome ...sto ja (mozda pogresno ...al tu ste vi da me, u tom slucaju, ispravite) drzim jeste marxizam. Buduci da je vecina forumasa ovdje, pored svih drugih kontra-argumenata koji su se savrseno mogli upotrijebiti, odabrala za krunski bas taj da je to sto Chumsky prdunja ..marxizam.


Hm... fulam li nesto...ili krivotvorenje statistickih podataka u vezi srpske agresije na zasticenu zonu Srebrenica stvarno ima najace teorijsko uporiste u njemackim socijolosko-filozofkim studijama?
ne, pogresno si shvatio sustinu. Njegovo ljevicarsko opredjeljenje (radikalno) je takvo da uvijek ide kontra...kome? Onima koji takvi nisu. A posto je Bosna i posebno srebrenica u to doba imala veliku paznju svjetskih medija, jado Chomsky se uhvatio za to da on, eto kao, prkosi americkom imperijalizmu i blizi biva milosevicanskom (boze kako ovo podsjeca na djevicansko) nacionalizmu i fasizmu, kojeg bi, neupuceni i nezainteresovani trebali shvatiti kao anti imperijalizam, a da su pri tome zrtve (srebrenice ili drugih gradova) NAMJERNO ili nenamjerno izostavljene.
gandhi
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#21

Post by gandhi »

da pamtis wrote:
Podržao sam one koji su tvrdili da su priča o Srebrenici i službeni broj žrtava preuveličani
Chomsky,a zasto ne podrza one koji su tvrdili da je sluzbeni broj zrtava Ausvica preuvelican????
Zato što je židov?! :roll:
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Bosanac sa dna kace
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#22

Post by Bosanac sa dna kace »

digger wrote:Dole je moja direktna poruka Diani. Ne bi bilo zgorega da svi koji imate problem sa njom ili Chomskim posaljete svoje misljenje imenovanima.
______

Subject: Srebrenica Revisited
Date: October 16, 2005 10:11:21 PM EDT
To: [email protected]

Dear Ms Johnstone:

I've read the above article in Counterpunch.org dated October 12.

I was not in Bosnia during the war and neither were you in Srebrenica 1995. At the same time, I am not a moslem but a Serbian.

Your article leaves many things that may be reconsidered as the complete truth about Srebrenica will never be known.

However, I have a serious disagreement with your writing covering missing 8000 adult males in Srebrenica. You believe the number of missing is closer to 3000. You are even trying to link some references to wrong estimates of dead in New York after the 9/11.

Well, we all know that Srebrenica is not New York. It is a small town where a difference of 5000 missing people would be easy to notice and confirm. The Dutch peacekeeping contingent was there at the time and no one of them ever mentioned that only about 3000 local males met Mladic's forces. If you are standing at 3000 dead and 5000 "went somewhere," how come that they did not return home by now, wrote to their families back in Srebrenica, or tried to contact the families by any other way? Have you ever tried to follow their disappearance and where are they today--even for just one of them?

At the same time, you probably wouldn't believe in "collective amnesia" of 5000 people, wouldn't you?

At best, this part of writing is something I would call a "science of guessology," and at worst, an elaborate effort to "buy" an explanation from those who don't want the world to know the facts.

Sincerely,
Mislim da treba navest da Majke enklava srbrenica i Zepa imaju dokumenatciju o pobijenih 8000 ljudi!
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#23

Post by Soul_Sista »

Malo opsirnijeg materijala na temu, svega 92 s. na engleskom je pa kome se cita nek izvoli. Ovu su dijelovi kritike i debate na temu o objavljenom intervju sa Dianom Johnstone u casopisu Ordfront u svedskim medijma.

http://www.nnn.se/n-model/foreign/ordfront.pdf
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#24

Post by repeater »

gandhi wrote:
da pamtis wrote:
Podržao sam one koji su tvrdili da su priča o Srebrenici i službeni broj žrtava preuveličani
Chomsky,a zasto ne podrza one koji su tvrdili da je sluzbeni broj zrtava Ausvica preuvelican????
Zato što je židov?! :roll:
Chomsky grew up in the depression of the 1930s, the son of William Chomsky and Elsie Simonofsky, Russian immigrants to Philadelphia. He describes the family as "working-class Jews", most of whom were unemployed, although his parents, both teachers, were lucky enough to work. There was no sense of America as the promised land: "It wasn't much of an opportunity-giver in my immediate family," he says, although it was an improvement on the pogroms of Russia, which none the less Chomsky can't help qualifying as "not very bad, by contemporary standards. In the worst of the major massacres, I think about 49 people were killed."
boom ...
digger
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#25

Post by digger »

gandhi wrote:Zato što je židov?! :roll:
Smiri se. Ne budali. :-)
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