AMERIKA

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vivaldi
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#2026 Re: AMERIKA

Post by vivaldi »

pici wrote:to je ova knjiga na turniru ti je ovo bila propusnica uz clansku kartu SK
:thumbup:

e to, citanka gdje je iskopa...ma nisam ja bio u klubu, vec ovako skolska takmicenja, ali samo ako ima sat na turniru. na 10 - 15 minuta. tu sam obozavao matemticare koji nikad nisu imali osjecali za vrijeme pa razmisljaju po 2 minute svaki potez, ili zaborave udarit sat. uvijek su bili bolji od mene, a uvijek sam ih uzimo na zastavicu :lol: :lol:

ja 10 poteza povucem u minuti, razdjelim im pijune, da mi ne smetaju, ostavim 1 topa, 1 laufera i 1 konja da mogu braniti dovoljno prostora za bijeg kralja, taman onoliko vrmena kolko mi treba dok im ne padne zastavice. a oni dumaju li dumaju vaki potez...ja kod dok holidej - lijeva ruka na satu, desnom micem kralja :lol:
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pici
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#2027 Re: AMERIKA

Post by pici »

vivaldi wrote:
pici wrote:to je ova knjiga na turniru ti je ovo bila propusnica uz clansku kartu SK
:thumbup:

e to, citanka gdje je iskopa...ma nisam ja bio u klubu, vec ovako skolska takmicenja, ali samo ako ima sat na turniru. na 10 - 15 minuta. tu sam obozavao matemticare koji nikad nisu imali osjecali za vrijeme pa razmisljaju po 2 minute svaki potez, ili zaborave udarit sat. uvijek su bili bolji od mene, a uvijek sam ih uzimo na zastavicu :lol: :lol:

ja 10 poteza povucem u minuti, razdjelim im pijune, da mi ne smetaju, ostavim 1 topa, 1 laufera i 1 konja da mogu braniti dovoljno prostora za bijeg kralja, taman onoliko vrmena kolko mi treba dok im ne padne zastavice. a oni dumaju li dumaju vaki potez...ja kod dok holidej - lijeva ruka na satu, desnom micem kralja :lol:
ja bez sata nisam htio igrat max 10 min sve preko sam taraba uzmu me ko levata :mrgreen: padne koncentracija a i nemerem puno dumat ipak je to igra... imao sam par finti pri otvaranju, krenem agresivno i ako se ko upeca upeca :mrgreen:
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vivaldi
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#2028 Re: AMERIKA

Post by vivaldi »

pici wrote:ja bez sata nisam htio igrat max 10 min sve preko sam taraba uzmu me ko levata padne koncentracija a i nemerem puno dumat ipak je to igra... imao sam par finti pri otvaranju, krenem agresivno i ako se ko upeca upeca
:lol: :lol: :lol: pa ko da mene opisujes jedino sto mi nije bio problem koncentracije vec su jednostavno bili bolji od mene, ali nekako operisani od sata uvijek bili. najdraze mi je bilo kad ne vide da im je pala zastavica, a ja im onda galantno dajem sve i igram do posljednjg poteza, a njima se oci zacakle od meraka dok mi figure skidaju...i onda kad vidim da vise nemam gdje i da je sljedeci potez mat, tad pokazem prstom na sat...tad su mu silno zabavljale te njihove psovke jer to su ljudi koji nikad ne psuju, al im je sah puno znacio u zivotu
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General War
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#2029 Re: AMERIKA

Post by General War »

vivaldi wrote:
General War wrote:Jack Kilian dje ga nadje.
e on, ma ja sam ti ko djuturum mentalno i sad vezan za ta vremena. danas mi je sve sranje. da hoce sad neko reprizirat kriinalisticke price, na tajnom zadtku, ulice san franciska, poroke majamija...jos se nisam oporavio od pogobije glavnog gllumca u na tajnom zadatku jer se rokno cini mi se na ruskom ruletu. nije ni bio u puno epizode prije smrti, al sam ga bio nesto zavolio
Znam znam nisam ni ja tako mlad, odrastao na tome.
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jeza u ledja
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#2030 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

vivaldi wrote:
jeza u ledja wrote:Mislim da nije razumljivo sto su Rusi ulagali tolike pare u tako skupe sisteme, a bogami i na tolike kolicine naoruzanja.
pa ja ne mislim jer je upravo oruzje ono sto ih sada cuva od demokratije na krilima tomahawka. ko sto sam napisao, nakon rata su imali samo jedan cilj "nikad vise". sva pamet i reursi su bili u to upregnuti i taj cilj su ispunili. za kolicine se slazem u potpunosti
Nakon rata su imali cilj da sprovode hegemoniju po svijetu sa svojom ideologijom. Mislim da je cudno govoriti o tome "nikad vise" u trenutku kad su kontrolisali pola Evrope i razvaljene i demilitarizovane Njemacke. Poenta je da su dostigli nivo koji su htjeli da odrze, osjetili se velikim i mocnim i htjeli su da tako ostane, a nisu imali pokrica. Mislim da je ipak u pitanju njihov izbor, a ne potreba.

A to uvodjenje demokratije i kapitalizma, to se vec desilo pocetkom 90-ih. Ta strasna babaroga od koje moraju da se cuvaju tolikim oruzjem. Nakon 10 godina patnje i tranzicije ta strasna babaroga ih je polako dovela do standarda o kakvom je prosjecan seljak na Kolhozu mogao samo da sanja.

Znaci i svo to oruzje i ulaganje, dok je narod skapavao, bilo uzalud.

I scenario kojeg spominjes, uvodjenja demokratije Tomahavcima, postoji samo u kontekstu animoziteta izmedju Rusije i Amerike. Pretpostavljam, za njega krivis americku zelju za dominacijom, zapadne kapitaliste i rusku zelju za nezavisnoscu i kontrolom svojih resursa. Ta pretpostavka ima smisla, na papiru........
Medjutim, pisuci ovo shvatam u cemu je problem u svim ovakvim raspravama.
Ja kad pisem o tome sta mislim da bi bilo bolje, sta bi gdje kao trebalo, itd, ja razmisljam iskljucivo, ali iskljucivo o tome kako nesto utice na dobrobit gradjana, tj pojedinca, ne kao dijela neke zajednice, vec bukvalno jednog po jednog covjeka (i onda naravno o dobrobiti vecine tih pojedinaca u nekom drustvu). Imam osjecaj kad ovako razgovaramo, da razgovaram sa ljudima koji razmisljaju u kontekstu "nacije". Ono, postoji nacija i njeno liderstvo, i dobrobit individue u toj naciji se stavlja ispod dobrobiti nacije, zemlje, a njeni lideri se stavljaju u kontekst simbola uspjeha ili neuspjeha te nacije. Kada se kaze na primjer "zeli se ostati nezavisnim" ili "imati kontrolu nad vlastitim resursima", tu se radi o kontroli drzave i kao takvom kontroli resursa od strane njenih gradjana, i tako se pravi pretpostavka da je fraza "kontrola nad vlastitim resursima" - jednaka boljem zivotu vecine pojedinaca u toj zemlji.
U stvarnosti to je rijetko tacno. U stvarnosti, opet se radi o pojedincima koji upravljaju tim resursima, upravljaju drzavnim firmama, upravljaju odlukama koje drzava donosi i opet se radi sistemu gdje se stvara prilika za zloupotrebu tih poluga vlasti, sto se (i ovo je kljucno!) sakriva iza paravana dobrobiti nacije, kolektiva i otvara prostor tim ljudima da imaju tu kontrolu zauvijek.

Rusija je dobro odmakla od takvog nacina razmisljanja, ali stice se utisak da se opet vracaju na staro. Mislim da ce ih "zelja za nezavisnoscu", ako se tako moze nazvati, opet baciti u negativu, i da se to vec desava. Naravno, ne ispasta onaj ko je na vlasti, vec obicni covjek.
Al bitno je da Rusija jaka, da ima jakog lidera, da pokazuje pesnicu i da ima cime da se kurci. Sta je na stolu, to je manje bitno, pogotovo dugorocno. I poogotovo za ljude koji nisu ni u jednoj zemalja o kojima se prica pa ih zanima samo fasada. Jebiga, tako je film interesantniji.
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General War
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#2031 Re: AMERIKA

Post by General War »

:lol:

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General War
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#2032 Re: AMERIKA

Post by General War »

BRUTALNO SECIRANJE TRUMPOVE POLITIKE: "Amerika će propasti ako ostane sama"!
John Kasich, guvernera američke savezne države Ohio, inače član Republikanske stranke, za Foreign Affairs brutalno je secirao sve ono što Trump radi zadnjih mjeseci i razotkrio sve loše strane njegove vanjske politike

http://www.slobodna-bosna.ba/vijest/831 ... _sama.html
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vivaldi
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#2033 Re: AMERIKA

Post by vivaldi »

jeza u ledja wrote:Ja kad pisem o tome sta mislim da bi bilo bolje, sta bi gdje kao trebalo, itd, ja razmisljam iskljucivo, ali iskljucivo o tome kako nesto utice na dobrobit gradjana, tj pojedinca, ne kao dijela neke zajednice, vec bukvalno jednog po jednog covjeka (i onda naravno o dobrobiti vecine tih pojedinaca u nekom drustvu).
iza svetice i najpoznatijeg humanitarca na svijetu, majke tereze, ostali su puni dzepova oraha.

ti iz nekog razloga u svojim postovima ignorises najbitniju stvar - kako svijet funkcionise, i onda svjesno ili nesvjesno upadas u licemjerje, nicim izazvan i poptuno nepotrebno, kao da pises samo da bi nesto napisao.
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#2034 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

vivaldi wrote:
jeza u ledja wrote:Ja kad pisem o tome sta mislim da bi bilo bolje, sta bi gdje kao trebalo, itd, ja razmisljam iskljucivo, ali iskljucivo o tome kako nesto utice na dobrobit gradjana, tj pojedinca, ne kao dijela neke zajednice, vec bukvalno jednog po jednog covjeka (i onda naravno o dobrobiti vecine tih pojedinaca u nekom drustvu).
iza svetice i najpoznatijeg humanitarca na svijetu, majke tereze, ostali su puni dzepova oraha.

ti iz nekog razloga u svojim postovima ignorises najbitniju stvar - kako svijet funkcionise, i onda svjesno ili nesvjesno upadas u licemjerje, nicim izazvan i poptuno nepotrebno, kao da pises samo da bi nesto napisao.
Svijet funkcionise tako da u onom u kom postoji liberalni kapitalizam i regulirana demokracija prosjecan covjek ima mnogo vise i slobode i bogatstva od prosjecnog covjeka u kojem ove dvije stvari ne postoje. Tako svijet funkcionise i to je najbitnija stvar svakom normalnom covjeku. Sve ostalo je ubleha, a pogotovo romanticne vizije davnih proslih vremena, zaglavljene na sahovskim tablama po Domovima kulture.

Jedino licemjerje u ovoj prici je ono koje izjednacava dobrobit drzave sa dobrobiti pojedinca.
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vivaldi
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#2035 Re: AMERIKA

Post by vivaldi »

jeza u ledja wrote:Svijet funkcionise tako da u onom u kom postoji liberalni kapitalizam i regulirana demokracija prosjecan covjek ima mnogo vise i slobode i bogatstva od prosjecnog covjeka u kojem ove dvije stvari ne postoje. Tako svijet funkcionise i to je najbitnija stvar svakom normalnom covjeku. Sve ostalo je ubleha, a pogotovo romanticne vizije davnih proslih vremena, zaglavljene na sahovskim tablama po Domovima kulture.Jedino licemjerje u ovoj prici je ono koje izjednacava dobrobit drzave sa dobrobiti pojedinca.
ne jez, ubleha je liberalni kapitalizam. da amerika vjeruje u njega ne bi joj godisnji vojni budzet bio veci od ostatka svijeta zajedno.

prvo batina u ruci pa sve ostalo.
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jeza u ledja
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#2036 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

vivaldi wrote:
jeza u ledja wrote:Svijet funkcionise tako da u onom u kom postoji liberalni kapitalizam i regulirana demokracija prosjecan covjek ima mnogo vise i slobode i bogatstva od prosjecnog covjeka u kojem ove dvije stvari ne postoje. Tako svijet funkcionise i to je najbitnija stvar svakom normalnom covjeku. Sve ostalo je ubleha, a pogotovo romanticne vizije davnih proslih vremena, zaglavljene na sahovskim tablama po Domovima kulture.Jedino licemjerje u ovoj prici je ono koje izjednacava dobrobit drzave sa dobrobiti pojedinca.
ne jez, ubleha je liberalni kapitalizam. da amerika vjeruje u njega ne bi joj godisnji vojni budzet bio veci od ostatka svijeta zajedno.

prvo batina u ruci pa sve ostalo.
Aha, jest, sigurno. A CCCP je najbolji primjer za uspjeh te formule. :lol: Pogotovo njeni gradjani.

Inace, ono, cisto zajebancije radi:

Image

:wink:
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vivaldi
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#2037 Re: AMERIKA

Post by vivaldi »

jeza u ledja wrote:Inace, ono, cisto zajebancije radi
pa o tvom licemjernom smijanju i govorim. ti konstatno sam sebe demantujes, drsko i bezobrazno.

amerika je danas najveci protivnik onoga sto je sama bila dok je postajala to sto jeste i sto je dobrim dijelom i danas.

dok je amerika postajala to sto jeste, a to nije tako davno bilo jer stotine miliona ljudi koji su tome svjedocili je i dans zivo.

amerika je bila raj za rasiste, amerikom je u duhu "demokratske" tradicije jedan covjek, hidden peder (edgar)iz sjene vladao 50 godina gangsterskim metodama dok nije umro , omiljeni nacionalni sport je godinama bio paranodini lov na vjestice...

americka vanjska politika je i tada i danas mafijaska - reketarska, ucjenjivacka i prijeteca. razlika izmedju ovog deklarativnog propovjedackog humanizma i renesanse i onoga sto se radilo i cinilo na terenu je nebo i zemlja.

upravo ova tabela to pokazuje. dok se fol propagiraju ljudska prava u isto vrijeme su decenijama best friends sa najrigidnijim rezimima na svijetu i to vec decenijama, a ova tabela pokazuje zasto. udara im se klasicni reket vec decenijama jer ne kupuje saudija oruzja sto im se svidja americki nacin zivota i ideja o slobodnom demokratskom drustvu vec zato sto znaju ako jedne godine na naruce turu iz amerike, doce im demokratija sama na vrata - susjedstvo im je puno takvih primjera. oduvijek, a i danas.

naravno, amerika je na kraju uspjela prva proci kroz cilj i postati svjetski policajac broj i samim tim planetarni svjetski tumac prava i pravde.

jedan od najbitnijih razloga zasto je uspjela u tome je sto uprkos svemu tome kakva je bila na tom putu uspona, sticajem okolnosti na laneti nije imala ama bas nikakvog izazivaca - hiroshima, peking, staljingrad i dresden su imali puno vecih problema od borbe za globalni tron. sovjeti su pokusali i izgubili. uz pametnije politicare taj je poraz mogao biti daleko blazi, ali svakako neizbjezan jer je polazna osnova bila daleko losija.

ono sto se danas desava u svijetu je pokusaj onih koji imaju prirodne predizpozicije da budu ne globalni, vec regionalni izazivaci, da se izbore za to, jer su se na jedna ili drugi nacin izvukli iz najveceg dna u kojem su bili.

i to je nesto sto je bilo neminovno, prije ili kasnije, jer na planeti postoje i uvijek ce postojati zemlje koje ne mogu sebi dozvoliti da zavise od dobre volje nekoga drugog, u ovom slucaju amerike, mada je to generalno pravilo. vecina svijeta je premala da se petlja u to i povinovat ce se i prilagodit novom poretku.

ono sto se sada desava u svijetu je meni potpuno normalno i razumljivo bez obzira na brutalnost i sirovost koja prati te tektonske poremecaje.

hiljadu puta sam napisao da je politika amerika meni savrseno razumljiva, kao sto mi je poptuno razumljiva i politika onih kojih sada najvise podrivaju postojeci svjetsk poredak - kina i rusija, a u buducnost i indija jer sa milijardu i po ljudi ni indija jednostavno ne moze pristati da joj drugi odlucuju sta smije ili ne smije.

nije problem meni u shvatanju americke politike, vec u tvojim duplim standardima, za kojim uopste nema potreba ni svrshishodnosti
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jeza u ledja
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#2038 Re: AMERIKA

Post by jeza u ledja »

vivaldi wrote: pa o tvom licemjernom smijanju i govorim. ti konstatno sam sebe demantujes, drsko i bezobrazno.
Drsko i bezobrazno, jel? Pazi sahiste sto je lak na jeziku.
Vec sam zaboravio da je tako protekla i prethodna rasprava.

Cao cao, vozdrica.

Svakako vidim da si ti samo jos jedan Dino Aligrudic.
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vivaldi
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#2039 Re: AMERIKA

Post by vivaldi »

jeza u ledja wrote:Drsko i bezobrazno, jel?
naravno da je drsko i bezobrazno

ja napisem ovo
vivaldi wrote:da amerika vjeruje u njega ne bi joj godisnji vojni budzet bio veci od ostatka svijeta zajedno.
a ti mi uvaljujes tabelu sa procentima iz koje ispadne da ce saudija jebat majku amerima (njihovim oruzjem) ako se naljute

kolko procenata izdvaja papua nova gvineja za lukove i strijele? vrlo je moguce da su pritajena svjetska vojna sila pa namjerno nisu ustupili podatke statisticarima
jeza u ledja wrote:Cao cao, vozdrica.
you too, mada ne sumnjam da ces se javiti sa novom tiradom o "liberalnom kapitalizmu" kad "lider slobodnog svijeta" pocne udarat sankcije ostatku slobodnog svijeta (zapadnoj evropi) zbog celika, aluminija, sjevernog toka 2...
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#2040 Re: AMERIKA

Post by daddy-kool »

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#2041 Re: AMERIKA

Post by славянин »

vivaldi wrote:
jeza u ledja wrote:Drsko i bezobrazno, jel?
naravno da je drsko i bezobrazno

ja napisem ovo
vivaldi wrote:da amerika vjeruje u njega ne bi joj godisnji vojni budzet bio veci od ostatka svijeta zajedno.
a ti mi uvaljujes tabelu sa procentima iz koje ispadne da ce saudija jebat majku amerima (njihovim oruzjem) ako se naljute

kolko procenata izdvaja papua nova gvineja za lukove i strijele? vrlo je moguce da su pritajena svjetska vojna sila pa namjerno nisu ustupili podatke statisticarima
jeza u ledja wrote:Cao cao, vozdrica.
you too, mada ne sumnjam da ces se javiti sa novom tiradom o "liberalnom kapitalizmu" kad "lider slobodnog svijeta" pocne udarat sankcije ostatku slobodnog svijeta (zapadnoj evropi) zbog celika, aluminija, sjevernog toka 2...
Covjek ti je dai tabelu u kojoj pokazuje da Amerika nije pomahnitala sa svojim vojnim budzetom nego da je isti odraz ekonomske moci - 4 procenta Amerika i Rusije naravno nisu isto - ali govoriti da Amerika nesto odskace od drugih u ulaganju u vojsku je netacno sto tabela i pokazuje.Drugo je opet ponavljam sto in je ekonomija ogromna tako da i vojsku imaju proporcionalnu tome..
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#2042 Re: AMERIKA

Post by sinuhe »

Alexis de Tocqueville prije 180 godina u poznatom djelu Demokratija u Americi
What Sort Of Despotism Democratic Nations Have To Fear

I had remarked during my stay in the United States, that a democratic state of society, similar to that of the Americans, might offer singular facilities for the establishment of despotism; and I perceived, upon my return to Europe, how much use had already been made by most of our rulers, of the notions, the sentiments, and the wants engendered by this same social condition, for the purpose of extending the circle of their power. This led me to think that the nations of Christendom would perhaps eventually undergo some sort of oppression like that which hung over several of the nations of the ancient world. A more accurate examination of the subject, and five years of further meditations, have not diminished my apprehensions, but they have changed the object of them. No sovereign ever lived in former ages so absolute or so powerful as to undertake to administer by his own agency, and without the assistance of intermediate powers, all the parts of a great empire: none ever attempted to subject all his subjects indiscriminately to strict uniformity of regulation, and personally to tutor and direct every member of the community. The notion of such an undertaking never occurred to the human mind; and if any man had conceived it, the want of information, the imperfection of the administrative system, and above all, the natural obstacles caused by the inequality of conditions, would speedily have checked the execution of so vast a design. When the Roman emperors were at the height of their power, the different nations of the empire still preserved manners and customs of great diversity; although they were subject to the same monarch, most of the provinces were separately administered; they abounded in powerful and active municipalities; and although the whole government of the empire was centred in the hands of the emperor alone, and he always remained, upon occasions, the supreme arbiter in all matters, yet the details of social life and private occupations lay for the most part beyond his control. The emperors possessed, it is true, an immense and unchecked power, which allowed them to gratify all their whimsical tastes, and to employ for that purpose the whole strength of the State. They frequently abused that power arbitrarily to deprive their subjects of property or of life: their tyranny was extremely onerous to the few, but it did not reach the greater number; it was fixed to some few main objects, and neglected the rest; it was violent, but its range was limited.

But it would seem that if despotism were to be established amongst the democratic nations of our days, it might assume a different character; it would be more extensive and more mild; it would degrade men without tormenting them. I do not question, that in an age of instruction and equality like our own, sovereigns might more easily succeed in collecting all political power into their own hands, and might interfere more habitually and decidedly within the circle of private interests, than any sovereign of antiquity could ever do. But this same principle of equality which facilitates despotism, tempers its rigor. We have seen how the manners of society become more humane and gentle in proportion as men become more equal and alike. When no member of the community has much power or much wealth, tyranny is, as it were, without opportunities and a field of action. As all fortunes are scanty, the passions of men are naturally circumscribed— their imagination limited, their pleasures simple. This universal moderation moderates the sovereign himself, and checks within certain limits the inordinate extent of his desires.

Independently of these reasons drawn from the nature of the state of society itself, I might add many others arising from causes beyond my subject; but I shall keep within the limits I have laid down to myself. Democratic governments may become violent and even cruel at certain periods of extreme effervescence or of great danger: but these crises will be rare and brief. When I consider the petty passions of our contemporaries, the mildness of their manners, the extent of their education, the purity of their religion, the gentleness of their morality, their regular and industrious habits, and the restraint which they almost all observe in their vices no less than in their virtues, I have no fear that they will meet with tyrants in their rulers, but rather guardians. I think then that the species of oppression by which democratic nations are menaced is unlike anything which ever before existed in the world: our contemporaries will find no prototype of it in their memories. I am trying myself to choose an expression which will accurately convey the whole of the idea I have formed of it, but in vain; the old words “despotism” and “tyranny” are inappropriate: the thing itself is new; and since I cannot name it, I must attempt to define it.

I seek to trace the novel features under which despotism may appear in the world. The first thing that strikes the observation is an innumerable multitude of men all equal and alike, incessantly endeavoring to procure the petty and paltry pleasures with which they glut their lives. Each of them, living apart, is as a stranger to the fate of all the rest — his children and his private friends constitute to him the whole of mankind; as for the rest of his fellow-citizens, he is close to them, but he sees them not — he touches them, but he feels them not; he exists but in himself and for himself alone; and if his kindred still remain to him, he may be said at any rate to have lost his country. Above this race of men stands an immense and tutelary power, which takes upon itself alone to secure their gratifications, and to watch over their fate. That power is absolute, minute, regular, provident, and mild. It would be like the authority of a parent, if, like that authority, its object was to prepare men for manhood; but it seeks on the contrary to keep them in perpetual childhood: it is well content that the people should rejoice, provided they think of nothing but rejoicing. For their happiness such a government willingly labors, but it chooses to be the sole agent and the only arbiter of that happiness: it provides for their security, foresees and supplies their necessities, facilitates their pleasures, manages their principal concerns, directs their industry, regulates the descent of property, and subdivides their inheritances — what remains, but to spare them all the care of thinking and all the trouble of living? Thus it every day renders the exercise of the free agency of man less useful and less frequent; it circumscribes the will within a narrower range, and gradually robs a man of all the uses of himself. The principle of equality has prepared men for these things: it has predisposed men to endure them, and oftentimes to look on them as benefits.

After having thus successively taken each member of the community in its powerful grasp, and fashioned them at will, the supreme power then extends its arm over the whole community. It covers the surface of society with a net-work of small complicated rules, minute and uniform, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate, to rise above the crowd. The will of man is not shattered, but softened, bent, and guided: men are seldom forced by it to act, but they are constantly restrained from acting: such a power does not destroy, but it prevents existence; it does not tyrannize, but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to be nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd. I have always thought that servitude of the regular, quiet, and gentle kind which I have just described, might be combined more easily than is commonly believed with some of the outward forms of freedom; and that it might even establish itself under the wing of the sovereignty of the people. Our contemporaries are constantly excited by two conflicting passions; they want to be led, and they wish to remain free: as they cannot destroy either one or the other of these contrary propensities, they strive to satisfy them both at once. They devise a sole, tutelary, and all-powerful form of government, but elected by the people. They combine the principle of centralization and that of popular sovereignty; this gives them a respite; they console themselves for being in tutelage by the reflection that they have chosen their own guardians. Every man allows himself to be put in leading-strings, because he sees that it is not a person or a class of persons, but the people at large that holds the end of his chain. By this system the people shake off their state of dependence just long enough to select their master, and then relapse into it again. A great many persons at the present day are quite contented with this sort of compromise between administrative despotism and the sovereignty of the people; and they think they have done enough for the protection of individual freedom when they have surrendered it to the power of the nation at large. This does not satisfy me: the nature of him I am to obey signifies less to me than the fact of extorted obedience.

I do not however deny that a constitution of this kind appears to me to be infinitely preferable to one, which, after having concentrated all the powers of government, should vest them in the hands of an irresponsible person or body of persons. Of all the forms which democratic despotism could assume, the latter would assuredly be the worst. When the sovereign is elective, or narrowly watched by a legislature which is really elective and independent, the oppression which he exercises over individuals is sometimes greater, but it is always less degrading; because every man, when he is oppressed and disarmed, may still imagine, that whilst he yields obedience it is to himself he yields it, and that it is to one of his own inclinations that all the rest give way. In like manner I can understand that when the sovereign represents the nation, and is dependent upon the people, the rights and the power of which every citizen is deprived, not only serve the head of the State, but the State itself; and that private persons derive some return from the sacrifice of their independence which they have made to the public. To create a representation of the people in every centralized country, is therefore, to diminish the evil which extreme centralization may produce, but not to get rid of it. I admit that by this means room is left for the intervention of individuals in the more important affairs; but it is not the less suppressed in the smaller and more private ones. It must not be forgotten that it is especially dangerous to enslave men in the minor details of life. For my own part, I should be inclined to think freedom less necessary in great things than in little ones, if it were possible to be secure of the one without possessing the other. Subjection in minor affairs breaks out every day, and is felt by the whole community indiscriminately. It does not drive men to resistance, but it crosses them at every turn, till they are led to surrender the exercise of their will. Thus their spirit is gradually broken and their character enervated; whereas that obedience, which is exacted on a few important but rare occasions, only exhibits servitude at certain intervals, and throws the burden of it upon a small number of men. It is in vain to summon a people, which has been rendered so dependent on the central power, to choose from time to time the representatives of that power; this rare and brief exercise of their free choice, however important it may be, will not prevent them from gradually losing the faculties of thinking, feeling, and acting for themselves, and thus gradually falling below the level of humanity. I add that they will soon become incapable of exercising the great and only privilege which remains to them. The democratic nations which have introduced freedom into their political constitution, at the very time when they were augmenting the despotism of their administrative constitution, have been led into strange paradoxes. To manage those minor affairs in which good sense is all that is wanted — the people are held to be unequal to the task, but when the government of the country is at stake, the people are invested with immense powers; they are alternately made the playthings of their ruler, and his masters — more than kings, and less than men. After having exhausted all the different modes of election, without finding one to suit their purpose, they are still amazed, and still bent on seeking further; as if the evil they remark did not originate in the constitution of the country far more than in that of the electoral body. It is, indeed, difficult to conceive how men who have entirely given up the habit of self-government should succeed in making a proper choice of those by whom they are to be governed; and no one will ever believe that a liberal, wise, and energetic government can spring from the suffrages of a subservient people. A constitution, which should be republican in its head and ultra-monarchical in all its other parts, has ever appeared to me to be a short-lived monster. The vices of rulers and the ineptitude of the people would speedily bring about its ruin; and the nation, weary of its representatives and of itself, would create freer institutions, or soon return to stretch itself at the feet of a single master.
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Quaresma
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#2043 Re: AMERIKA

Post by Quaresma »

handžar88
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#2044 Re: AMERIKA

Post by handžar88 »

jeza u ledja wrote:
Aha, jest, sigurno. A CCCP je najbolji primjer za uspjeh te formule. :lol: Pogotovo njeni gradjani.

Inace, ono, cisto zajebancije radi:

Image

:wink:
Meanwhile, ljudi seru po putu.. koja sloboda jarane hocemo i mi vako

Image
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shbc
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#2045 Re: AMERIKA

Post by shbc »

Ne znam gdje da pitam... Mozda je ovdje najprikladnije.

Citav dan citam vijesti o smrti McCain-a i natpise i price o njegovom velikom prijateljstvu prema BiH, te pomaganju u ratu. Posto ja fakat nisam upucen (i zaista ne mislim ovo pitanje kao provokaciju), sta je on zapravo uradio za nas?
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General War
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#2046 Re: AMERIKA

Post by General War »

shbc wrote:Ne znam gdje da pitam... Mozda je ovdje najprikladnije.

Citav dan citam vijesti o smrti McCain-a i natpise i price o njegovom velikom prijateljstvu prema BiH, te pomaganju u ratu. Posto ja fakat nisam upucen (i zaista ne mislim ovo pitanje kao provokaciju), sta je on zapravo uradio za nas?
He is a key figure in the Senate and the US political scene. He is also known for his role in ending the war against Bosnia and Herzegovina. American requests for military strikes on Serb artillery around towns were always blocked by the British politics. That, however, changed in 1995 when the UK ended up the only European country with such position regarding Bosnian war. The British politics was regularly rejecting proposals for strikes on the Serb artillery position and the proposal to lift the UN embargo on arms – the request of the famous senator Bob Dole to launch an operation as part of newly adopted American policy 'Lift and Strike', which Bill Clinton adopted in 1992.

In the beginning of the Bosnian war, John McCain was sceptic about the US military intervention. However, by 1993, when world media started broadcasting pictures of killed civilians, McCain began to advocate for an active participation of the United States in resolving and stopping Bosnian tragedy. He often reproached Europeans for observation of Bosnian calvary from distance.

Then British defense minister, Malcolm Rifkind was among the most reluctant to accept American proposal to end Bosnian agony. Rifkind said to Bob Dole: 'You Americans have no clue what war horrors are.' Unfortunately, he said that to a man who had lost his arm in a war. Such tone could not pass John McCain. During negotiations between the US and British teams concerning Bosnia, famous publicist Brendan Simms in his book Unfinest Hour cited one of the negotiation team members who told him that 'it looked like visibly irritated John McCain was about to strike Rifkind'.

Late diplomat Richard Holbrooke wrote in his memoirs that McCain's 'courage and integrity were unequalled in the Senate'.
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karanana
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#2047 Re: AMERIKA

Post by karanana »

znam da su on i dole bili zagovornici ukidanja embarga i bombardovanja mladiceve paravojske.
znam da su i usvojili neke rezolucije u senatu ali ne znam tacno na sta se to odnosilu. ultimativno je na kraju amerika i indirektno naoruzavala arbih preko drugih satelitskih zemalja i siguran sam da je on i njegov neki komitet igrao ulogu u tome.

eno pucnjava nova. haha, frajer zijanio u playstation madden turniru, naljutio se i izrokao ljude.
gejming terorista.
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Krokodajl
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#2048 Re: AMERIKA

Post by Krokodajl »

shbc wrote:Ne znam gdje da pitam... Mozda je ovdje najprikladnije.

Citav dan citam vijesti o smrti McCain-a i natpise i price o njegovom velikom prijateljstvu prema BiH, te pomaganju u ratu. Posto ja fakat nisam upucen (i zaista ne mislim ovo pitanje kao provokaciju), sta je on zapravo uradio za nas?
On, Bob Dole i Joe Biden su bili najglasniji po pitanju ukidanja embarga i rokanja VRS.
McCaina i Bidena se toliko i ne sjećam iz tog vremena, ali Bob Dolea itekako, njegovih riječi i kampanje, i mislim da je Bob Dole najviše i doprinjeo naoružavanju ARBiH.

Poslije sam putem interneta čitao i gledao tadašnje govore i pomenutog dvojca, Joe Biden je poznat govornik i njegovi govori o Bosni u kongresu su bili dosta vatreni, sa druge strane McCain je i tada bio značajna figura u Američkoj politici jer je bio logoraš u Vijetnamu i zbog toga visoko cijenjen u USA krugovima, tako da vjerujem da su barem u Americi njegovi "vapaji" najviše odjeknuli od ove dvojice, kod nas se mislim Dole najviše čuo.
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shbc
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#2049 Re: AMERIKA

Post by shbc »

Hvala :thumbup:
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Sanjarko
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#2050 Re: AMERIKA

Post by Sanjarko »

Nisam citao vijesti. Pokrenuo mu se tumor jel tako. Posto ga je na mozgu imao.
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