SamoVasGledam wrote:...
A ja opet kažem da to što piše nešto u Kur'anu meni ne znači ništa. Ja tu ne vidim nikakvu mudrost, logiku ili bilo šta slično. Vidim samo da se autor Kur'ana ispalio i sada menja odluku uz neko smešno opravdanje. Najiskrenije mislim da bi osnovci bili inventivniji.
ako nerazmisljas logicno normalno je da ce ti djelovati nelogicno
Koju? Jel to samo zato što je Muhamed navodno sanjao da je putovao u Jerusalim i molio se tamo sa 124 000 poslanika koje niko nije uspeo da vidi i zabeleži taj događaj?
Dobro i reče ovaj čovek - Muhamed je bio u Jerusalimu, a nije kupio ni jednu kiflu kako bi barem malo pomogao lokalnoj ekonomiji, a opet tvrdite da imate pravo na taj grad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8l3EWFMBf0
Jerusalim je važan za Jevreje iz istorijske i verske strane, jer je to njihov staricentar, glavni grad, grad kraljeva, proroka... Za hrišćane zato što je isus tamo propovedao, ispunjavao proročanstva, umro, vaskrsao pa je jevanđelje počelo odande da se širi, tamo će se Isus i vratiti. Za Islam Jerusalim nema nikakvu ulogu, ali to nije sprečilo muslimane da osvoje grad i tuđa sveta mesta i da grade džamije tamo.
Zidovski poslanici su i nama vazni, to su i nasi poslanici nema veze sto su slati zidovima Izraela.
A jos poslanik je isao u jeruzalem u svom duhvnom putovanju , i muhammed nam je rekao da su najsvetija 3 mjesta na svijetu
Mekka, Medina, Jeruzalem.
i zato je nama jeruzalem svet grad.
Ceo Bliski Istok i Mala Azija su bili drevne hrišćanske zemlje i kolevka Hrišćanstva. Danas hrišćana u nekim delovima više ni nema, a u ostalim ih je sve manje i procentualno i brojčano. Mnoge crkve su napuštene i pretvorene u džamije, a ti pričaš ovde u nekakvom lepom suživotu.
milioni krscana u arapskom svijetu govori o njihovom suzivtu samo po sebi.
Dakle ipak se spominje obezglavljivanje u Kur'anu. A zar nije Muhamed takođe odrubljivao glave medinskim Jevrejima, pa im je još brojao i stidne dlake? I pre nego što kažeš da im je suđeno po Tori da kažem da u Tori se obezglavljivanje uopšte ne spominje.
Muhamemd nije sudio, nego su jednosglasno izabrali zidovi i muslimani da bude bivsi zidov koji ce donijeti presudu, bivsi zidov koji je prihvatio islam
oni su se svi slozili, i on im je presudio po Tori
evo i dokaz:
Ponovljeni zakon 20,10
Kad se približi kojemu gradu, da ga opsjedne, najprije mu ponudi mir!
Ponovljeni zakon 20,11
Prihvati li mir i preda li se tebi, onda sve pučanstvo, što se nađe u njemu, potpada pod danak i robiju.
Ponovljeni zakon 20,12
Ako li neće da sklopi mir s tobom, nego se odluči za boj s tobom, onda ga opsjedni!
Ponovljeni zakon 20,13
Kad ti ga preda u ruke Gospod, Bog tvoj, onda pobij sve muško u njemu oštricom mača!
Ponovljeni zakon 20,14
Ali žene i djecu i stoku i s, što se inače nalazi u gradu, sav plijen, uzmi za sebe! Možeš slobodno raspolagati plijenom svojih neprijatelja, što ti ga dade Gospod, Bog tvoj.
znaci sudio je zidovima po njihoj knjizi. U ostalom jeli ti uopste znas zasto su oni nastradali. zato sto su izdali muslimnsku vojsku jer su trebali po ugovou zajedno da braner grad medinu od kolicijskih snaga, oni su se okrenuli protiv muslimana u najgorem casu i poceli da prave nerede u gradu a muslimaska vojska bila van grada na liniji. i normalno je ocekivati da ce zavrsiti kako su zavrsili u tim okolnostima u tom vremenu.
Šta rizikuje? Jel uspeva to zastrašivanje, jer koliko vidim ISIS maltene svakodnevno seče ruke. I opet nisi odgovorio šta ako se nekom čoveku namesti i kasnije se ispostavi da je nevin? Šta kaže tvoj svemudri Bog, kako mu nadoknaditi to? Kako će on sada tako osakaćen izdržavati svoju ženu ili žene i decu? Koliko je zapravo života upropašteno tim jednim potezom?
serijatska kazna se samo vrsi kad je ocit dokaza, a nesmije se vrsiti ako ima sumnje.
Postojali su i mnogo gori ratovi u kojima su muškarci ginuli mnogo češće od žena, pa je opet muškaraca bilo više, jer se muška deca generalno češće rađaju. To ti nije izgovor uopšte, a i da jeste opet nisi odgovorio kako to, čak i da su ratovi, žena ima čak četiri puta više ako su se ženska deca masovno ubijala u paganskoj Arabiji?
nemoze biti vise, jer ratovi su uvijek bili i uvijek se muskog zivlja ginulo nego zenskog.
neka svega ti.
Ne znam, meni svaki hadis koji sam do sada citirao govori upravo suprotno. Čak ima i onaj u kojem Aiša kaže da je ovca pojela te ajete o kamenovanju i dojenju.
vidim da su te podojili sa klasicnih anti-islamskiih postapalica
nigdje veze svezom, ove fore mogu samo d apokupe ljudi koji blage veze nemaju kako je Kuran doasao, kao da je Kuran ovisio o nekom komadu papiru, jednom ajetu, ljudi svi ucili napamet Kuran, druga stvar sto su drugi radili kopije ne samo jedna osoba, tako da je nemoguce da se bilo sta izgubi.
I po čemu so onda ti autori tefsira relevantni za bilo šta kada očigledno po tebi nisu imali pojma o čemu pišu, već su sve tumačili na svoju ruku?
oni su releventni da objasne ajete na osnovu cega su spusteni, u kojim okolnostima itd
ali oni nisu kompotentni da govore o ajetima koji govore o nauci.
stvari se postavljaju na svoja mjesta.
Ti hadisi su svi nastali 200 godina nakon Muhameda. Ko zna koliko je toga izmišljeno i izmenjeno od strane različitih struja koje nastale tokom vremena.
laz nije tacno, gdje bas citas ove gluposti matere ti???
drugovi poslanika muhammeda koji su znali pisati su prabvili manuscipte sa hadisima ako nisi znao
Hadith Compilation by the Companions of the Prophet
Orientalists, Christians Missionaries and Hadith rejecting cultists often argue that Hadith compilation started in the 3rd century After Hijrah. This can be anything but certainly not the truth.
In the following lines I give some evidences for Hadith compilations by different companions of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, and their pupils.
Please note in this particular paper I am not going to discuss compilations made on the directives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him. Insha’Allah a separate paper will soon come out on it. For now let us consider the manuscripts and compilations made by companions themselves or their immediate students.
1- Abdullah bin ‘Amr’s Manuscript:
A well known companion of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, named ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As (d. 63 A.H.) had prepared a manuscript with narrations he directly listened from the Prophet. The manuscript is famous by the name, ‘Sahifa al-Sadiqah’
Mujahid said: I saw a manuscript with Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As so I asked about it. He said: “This is al-Sadiqa and in it is what I listened to from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, in it (means narrations therein) there is no step between myself and the Prophet.” (Ibn Sa’d’s Tabaqat al-Kubra Darul Sader ed. 2/373)
Abu Rashid al-Hurani said: I went to ‘Abdullah bin ‘Amr bin al-‘As and I said to him: “Narrate to me what you listened from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him.” He handed me over a manuscript and said: “This is what I wrote from the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him …” (Musnad Ahmad, Hadith 6851. Shaykh Shu’aib Arnaut authenticated it)
This was later passed on to his great grandson ‘Amr bin Shu’aib (d. 118 A.H.)
Although the book is not extant today, perhaps still we can find out the narrations in it.
Hafiz Ibn Hajr has quoted that Yahya bin Ma’in said: “When ‘Amr bin Shu’aib narrates from his grandfather through his father it is from (that) book.” (Tahzib al-Tahzib 8/49)
With a computer program I searched for this chain in just 20 well known Hadith compilations and found nearly 850 results.
2- Manuscript of ‘Ali:
Sayyidina ‘Ali (d. 40 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had a manuscript of Hadith with him.
‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, said: “We have not written anything from the Prophet except the Qur’an and what is in this manuscript …” (Sahih Bukhari, Hadith 3179)
Various narrations throw light on the contents of this manuscript. It had injunctions on, “Blood-money, Qasas, releasing of captives.” (cf. Bukhari, Hadith 111), “Sanctity of Madina” (cf. Bukhari, Hadith 3179) etc. And ‘Ali, may Allah be pleased with him, used to keep it tied with the scabbard of his sword (cf. Sahih Muslim)
3- Compilations of narrations of Abu Huraira:
Al-Hassan bin ‘Amr said: I mentioned a Hadith to Abu Huraira which he did not acknowledge. I said, “Verily I have listened to it from you.” He said, “If you got it from me then it must be written with me.” He held my hand and took me to his home and we saw many books of Hadith of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him, then we found the Hadith. So he said, “Indeed I told you if I narrated it to you then it is written with me.” (Jami’ Bayan al-‘ilm, Hadith 422)
One may say this Hadith contradicts the narration from Sahih Bukhari in which Abu Huraira himself said that he did not write the Ahadith. But this is not a problem for it appears Abu Huraira did not record the Ahadith in written form during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him, and initial years of Khilafa but later he started writing them.
As per the narration recorded by Ibn Sa’d, Abdul ‘Aziz bin Marwan (d. 80 A.H.), the father of ‘Umar bin Abdul Aziz, wrote to Kathir bin Murrah al-Hadharmi:
“At Hims you have met seventy of the companions of Messenger of Allah who fought at Badr … Write to me what you have heard of the Ahadith of the Messenger of Allah from his companions, except those of Abu Huraira for they are with us.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 7/448 Entry: Kathir bin Murrah)
This proves Abdul Aziz bin Marwan had the Ahadith of Abu Huraira, may Allah be pleased with him, in written form with him. And it further proves that efforts were being made to put the Ahadith in writing during the time of the companions for certainly many companions lived even after 80 A.H. when Abdul Aziz died. Isn’t it much before the third century After Hijrah?
4- Manuscript of Anas bin Malik:
Anas bin Malik (d. 92 A.H.) had his own manuscript of Hadith which he copied from the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him:
Ma’bad bin Hilal says: When many of us were with Anas bin Malik he came to us with a manuscript saying, “I heard this from the Prophet, may Allah bless him, and so I wrote it and presented it unto him.” (Mustadrak al-Hakim, Hadith 6452)
This shows companions started making private Hadith collections right during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him.
5- Books of Ibn ‘Abbas:
Another well known companion Ibn ‘Abbas (d. 68 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, had multiple treatises:
Musa bin ‘Uqbah said: “Karib bin Abi Muslim put in front of us a camel load or equal to a camel load of books of Ibn ‘Abbas.” (Ibn Sa’d’s Tabaqat al-Kubra 5/293)
6- Manuscript of ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud:
Another great companion, Abdullah bin Mas’ud (d. 32 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had his own manuscript.
M’an said: ‘Abdul Rahman bin ‘Abdullah bin Mas’ud came to me with a book and swore, “Verily my father wrote it with his own hand.” (Jami’ Bayan al-‘Ilm wa Fadhlihi, Hadith 399)
7- Manuscript of Samurah bin Jundub:
Another famous companion, Samurah bin Jundub (d. 58 A.H.), may Allah be pleased with him, also had his collection of Hadith:
Ibn Hajr writes:
“Suleman bin Samurah bin Jundub transmitted a large manuscript from his father.” (Tahzib al-Tahzib 4/198)
8- Manuscript of Jabir bin Abdullah:
Jabir bin Abdullah (d. circa 70 A.H.) is also reported to have made a manuscript of Hadith with narrations on Hajj.
Consider the following narration from one of his top students.
“Mujahid narrated from the manuscript of Jabir.” (Tabaqat al-Kubra 5/467)
9- Compilation of Bashir bin Nahik:
A student of Abu Huraira, Bashir bin Nahik also compiled the Ahadith he learnt from Abu Huraira:
Bashir bin Nahik said: I used to write whatever I learnt from Abu Huraira. Then as I intended to part from him I came to him with the book and read it to him and asked, “This is what I heard from you?” Abu Huraira said, “Yes.” (Sunan Darmi, Hadith 494. Shaykh Hussain Salim Asad graded the report as Sahih)
10- Mauscript of Hammam bin Munabbih:
Another student of Abu Huraira, Hammam bin Munabbih (d. 132 A.H.) made a collection of the Ahadith he learnt from Abu Huraira. All praise be to Allah, it is extant to this day. Dr. Hamiddulah, an erudite scholar of recent times, found two manuscripts of it in Berlin and Damascus and published it. It has 138 Ahadith. Imam Ahmad has quoted all these narrations in his Musnad. Sometimes back I made a little research on the first 20 narrations of this manuscript and compared them with Musnad Ahmad. My findings are given Here.
All these facts refutes the lie about Hadith writing being a phenomenon originating more than 200 years after the Holy Prophet, may Allah bless him.
A što se tiče čuda kao što sam rekao, gledao sam, slušao sam, čitaao sam i nisam impresioniran. Imaš debatu između Osame Abdallaha i Nabila Qureshia o tkz. kuranskim čudima i Nabil je pojeo Osamu kao od šale.
Druze previse su te podojili lazima da bi ti sad ispadao smijesan ovdje
sa rogatijim od sebe se ne bodi kad je u pitanju islamsko znanje jer sam u islamu od 1993/1994 godine
Pa ti si rekao da ćeš mi ti dati pravila, no svejedno da li su pravila tvoja ili kuranska, zašto oni moraju da se drže baš tih pravila, a ne da stvore neka svoja koja bi učinila njihovu knjigu još boljom od tvoje?
mogu oni isto da prave svoja pravila ako hoce, ali sam spomenuo Kuran jer je Kuran taj koji za see tvrdi da je bozanska knjiga, dok naucni ne tvrde tako nesto.
Pa ti ih ovde bombarduješ tim čudima skoro svakodnevno, pa ih opet nisi impresionirao. Verujem da je većina njih, ako ne i svi, barem jednom selo i pažljivo pročitalo sve što si napisao. I ne samo da ih nisi ubedio u sve to, nego ih nisi ni zainteresovao da sami sednu i na svoju ruku to istraže. Barem ja čitajući ovaj forum koliko ga čitam nisam stekao takav utisak.
onaj ko nerazumije niti razmislja duboko o tim stvari nece ni cijeniti pa makar se zvao Muhammed.
dok sam isao fakultet gdje je matematika mi bila glavni predmet, ja cijenim daleko vise ove stavri u Kuranu jer mi je to fah, nesto sto poznaje, mogu da detekiram odmah jeli cudo ili nije.
